53 replies to this topic

[Fangers]

Mr Ricochet, on 04 March 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

I received an email from a reliable source, but usually wait until I get independent confirmation on things before I post, which I haven't. With this new info in the article and Minor Life's addition to it I'll paste part of the email........ This has the USHL taking on multiple EJHL teams!!!

Quote

The USHL eastward expansion will inlcude the Portland Pirates, Bay State Breakers, South Shore, Huskies/Islanders, Boston Jr Bruins and likely New Jersy Hitmen. as this effectively kills the EJHL,

This is one helluva rumor, but in theory this would plop the USHL into the east big time.............

This would be financial disaster, wouldn't it? the whole reason the EJ has remained a pay to play league is that they can't draw enough revenue from attendence/etal to be close to profitiable (at least that;s what the teams have always claimed) - simply too many hockey options available for fans.

Edited by Fangers, 04 March 2012 - 01:22 PM.

[Yeti]

Mr Ricochet, on 04 March 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

I received an email from a reliable source, but usually wait until I get independent confirmation on things before I post, which I haven't. With this new info in the article and Minor Life's addition to it I'll paste part of the email........ This has the USHL taking on multiple EJHL teams!!!

Quote

The USHL eastward expansion will inlcude the Portland Pirates, Bay State Breakers, South Shore, Huskies/Islanders, Boston Jr Bruins and likely New Jersy Hitmen. as this effectively kills the EJHL,

This is one helluva rumor, but in theory this would plop the USHL into the east big time.............

Wow, wow, wow!

[Mr Ricochet]

Gotta admit, this doesn't sound very USHL like, but if the ultimate goal is to indeed expand all the way east this is a way to do it big. Like I said it doesn't seem to fit the conservative style of the USHL.

[minor life]

Here's some hypothetical thought....The Phantoms will leave NY for PA in a year, Elmira is short for the ECHL, those a two arenas that would work and could support the USHL. Lewiston would work. I just cant think of other arenas that would work in the east. But the thought of this happening is just amazing. I cant see it, but if Skip Prince did this, all of the best NAHL players would jump ship, add the EJHL's best, and I dont see watering down happening. I do see it chrushing the NAHL and turning the EJHL into a league like the MnJHL. Lets just say you take the top 3 players from each NAHL team, that is 84 players that are close to or at USHL level. Take the top 3 from the EJHL teams, and you have another 52 players close to or at USHL level. That is nearly enough for 7 USHL teams right there. Not to mention the young players coming out of AAA and from Canada. An amazing proposition.

[stmary01]

Do many teams make a profit in the USHL? If so, would the league do a revenue sharing like the NFL does? I personally wouldnt like this move, as it is now I only see some teams in dubuque once all season.. what happens if they add all these teams? will I ever seem them? Would the have a few showcases like other junior leagues have to cut down on travel and cost and also give scouts access to all teams??

[arlingtonway]

Minor Life:

as far as other venues, and I know this will never happen but, I always thought Hershey Park Arena would be a good USHL home. It wasn't that long ago that the Bears were considering bringing in a ECHL franchise to play in the old barn and if they were to be involved with a jr. program at the USHL level I think the area would embrace it.

but you''re right good mid size venues out east are hard to come by.

Edited by arlingtonway, 04 March 2012 - 11:25 PM.

[Ryan]

stmary01, on 04 March 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

Do many teams make a profit in the USHL? If so, would the league do a revenue sharing like the NFL does? I personally wouldnt like this move, as it is now I only see some teams in dubuque once all season.. what happens if they add all these teams? will I ever seem them? Would the have a few showcases like other junior leagues have to cut down on travel and cost and also give scouts access to all teams??

Good point with not seeing them. Most teams from opposite divisions see each other once. Would be interesting to see how that scheduling works. In the NAHL, divisional teams play each other many many times a season without seeing most other teams in the league.

Or maybe it will be split into the USHL West and the USHL East with a schedule similar to the MLB. Lot of divisional games and a majority with others in the same conference with a few long road trips per season. Then winner of the USHL West takes on the winner of the USHL East.

[Mr Ricochet]

Ryan, on 04 March 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

stmary01, on 04 March 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

Do many teams make a profit in the USHL? If so, would the league do a revenue sharing like the NFL does? I personally wouldnt like this move, as it is now I only see some teams in dubuque once all season.. what happens if they add all these teams? will I ever seem them? Would the have a few showcases like other junior leagues have to cut down on travel and cost and also give scouts access to all teams??

Good point with not seeing them. Most teams from opposite divisions see each other once. Would be interesting to see how that scheduling works. In the NAHL, divisional teams play each other many many times a season without seeing most other teams in the league.

Or maybe it will be split into the USHL West and the USHL East with a schedule similar to the MLB. Lot of divisional games and a majority with others in the same conference with a few long road trips per season. Then winner of the USHL West takes on the winner of the USHL East.

This, in some way. Maybe a Western-Central-Eastern set up of some sort........

As far as scheduling the ECHL has a schedule where the divisional rivals play each other 14-15-16 times, same with the AA CHL. Each team makes maybe 2 road trips across country, and they receive out of division opponents maybe 2-3 times.

Even in the AHL it's a top heavy in division schedule. I believe the Hawks' Rockford affiliate plays the Canucks' Chicago affiliate 12 times, same with Milwaukee. .... So this is now normal in the hockey world.

Personally I'd like to see the USHL focus on IL, MI, WI, IN, OH and maybe MO for expansion. I love the fact that the league doesn't just expand for expansions sake and hope they continue that way. Big is rarely better these days, especially with gas prices at a point where this country is being strangled.

[TheShow]

arlingtonway, on 04 March 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

Minor Life:

as far as other venues, and I know this will never happen but, I always thought Hershey Park Arena would be a good USHL home. It wasn't that long ago that the Bears were considering bringing in a ECHL franchise to play in the old barn and if they were to be involved with a jr. program at the USHL level I think the area would embrace it.

but you''re right good mid size venues out east are hard to come by.

Hershey Park Arena? I think we've gotta leave that one alone. Man, I remember catching a game there in the early 90s and...well...it's somethin...

[Honest Shane]

Chances are pretty good that if we expand into the East that far, that most of us on here wouldn't be able to see a Clark Cup Finals game very easily. It is nothing to drive up to 2 hours to see 2 teams play for the Cup that aren't your own team, it is a little harder to swallow if you are going to drive 4 hours to watch 2 teams that aren't even your team, but think if you had to drive 8-12 hours or more.....it wouldn't happen. Imagine if it was your team playing 8-12 or more hours away.

[minor life]

From a fan perspective in the playoffs this may be a hard thing to see. But from a player perspective, if this were to happen, players would get very excited. NCAA would love this as well. Very hopeful this is not just a rumor and is actually something being looked at for the future. Can you imagine a USHL finals series with a team from the Boston area involved? That would be one hard ticket to get.

[Storm Chaser]

I just see this as too much too soon for the USHL if this does go thru. Travel costs are enough already and expanding so much out of the footprint would just raise them even more. I agree with Mr Ricochet that the best option for the USHL would be to stay in this Midwest region. Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Minnesota, lets not spread the league too then. And as someone else mentioned we don't want to dilute the talent pool of players.

[TheShow]

Storm Chaser, on 05 March 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

I just see this as too much too soon for the USHL if this does go thru. Travel costs are enough already and expanding so much out of the footprint would just raise them even more. I agree with Mr Ricochet that the best option for the USHL would be to stay in this Midwest region. Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Minnesota, lets not spread the league too then. And as someone else mentioned we don't want to dilute the talent pool of players.

I personally don't see it taking away from the talent pool. What it would do is make it actually come close to competing with the CHL, in my opinion, as more players from New England will think harder about leaving preps to play in the league. I honestly don't know how hot of a ticket it would be though. I would think there would need to be a swift mass exodus of players from the prep ranks to the USHL to get the league to stay afloat in towns in Eastern Mass/New Hampshire. I personally think the idea of TWO juniors teams in Maine is completely insane in all regards(especially a team in Saco...). Maine is NOT a hockey state, as much as people in Orono want you to think it is, to keep a junior team in Southern Maine afloat. I mean, Saco is just an easy trainhop(on the good ole downeastah!) to Boston to catch a host of "better" hockey options.

[KingoftheCrease]

Storm Chaser, on 05 March 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

I just see this as too much too soon for the USHL if this does go thru. Travel costs are enough already and expanding so much out of the footprint would just raise them even more. I agree with Mr Ricochet that the best option for the USHL would be to stay in this Midwest region. Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Minnesota, lets not spread the league too then. And as someone else mentioned we don't want to dilute the talent pool of players.

Travel is not an issue. That is assuming that this expansion establishes 3 or 4 Confrences within the USHL, that are geographically established. The Fall Classic, maybe a winter showcase, a few OCC games thrown in and now limit play to Confrences that are eastablished regionally and you have no problem. The EJ travel costs where the furtheres teams are a few hours apart has never been an issue. The selling point of sleeping in your own everynight has always been a good one for the league. Travel costs really are not that greatly impacted at all. Add in that if the EJ teams are maintaining operations pretty much as is, they all have and currently maintain several levels of competive hockey from youth teams, to other JR B levels. It is those addtional levels which actually fund the EJ teams. A model that perhaps would be a good one for all the other USHL teams. Lets face it, if these USHL clubs maintained some youth the EJ programs, aa, AAA NA3HL EMPIRE, what ever they would have a fan base that is hockey oriented and tied to the team.
There is a lot more at work here, than just a USHL expansion, the expansion is just the surface. One can likely assume that none expansion EJ teams and some Empire, AJ teams could very be converted to NAHL East as well. Then OThers to NA3HL. All streamlined in governence under USA hockey, maybe with each even having their own championship, followed buy a USA hockey JR championship where the champs from each level would play off.
I just see this as the begining of something far larger than just a little USHL expansion.