53 replies to this topic

[arlingtonway]

So I was reading an article about the last FHL game in Lewiston (HERE) when I came acrossed this paragraph


"We've been looking hard at the Federal hockey League option, knowing it's on the table," Colisee owner Jim Cain said. "We know that the USHL (United States Hockey League) is a year out, and now that we know that with more certainty, that it's really going to happen, we have to bridge that gap of time."


Thats a huge gap..(youngstown to lewiston)....Has any one heard anything suggeting where other eastern teasm could be located if the USHL went through with that expansion?

Edited by arlingtonway, 09 February 2012 - 09:39 AM.

[TheShow]

Man, Lewiston should really try out the EJHL market before jumping into the USHL. That arena and fanbase are so mediocre, it's really not going to go over well if they just jump into the USHL. Unless the league booms in terms of expansion and creates a 6 team railroad from Lewiston to Youngstown, it's gonna be a disaster for expenses and the bus legs of those kids. I'm extremely curious about the potential ownership group in Lewiston...like...who are they? That article suggests the Pirates owner...which would be a HUGE 180 in terms of the Juniors/Pirates relationship, going off the Maineiacs/Pirates as evidence. They NEVER scratched each other's back and constantly took (subtle) shots at each other's product in advertising.

[Yeti]

The USHL to Lewiston rumors have been floating around for quite awhile now.

Here's a thread Rico started about it in June of 2011: http://finishyourche...__pid__14704028

Lewiston is over 700 miles, and 13 hours away from the most eastern team in the USHL (Youngstown Phantoms). Logistically, I don't see how they could add Lewiston without adding a number of other east coast USHL teams at the same time. Considering how careful the USHL is in terms of where it wants to put its footprint, I just don't see how adding Lewiston makes sense.

Edited by Yeti, 09 February 2012 - 10:09 AM.

[minor life]

Eastern USHL expansion is something the league would definitely pursue under the right circumstances. I dont see it next year unless they provide the $ to visiting teams for travel. It is a great market though, and opening the east would be great for the USHL.

[TheShow]

minor life, on 09 February 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Eastern USHL expansion is something the league would definitely pursue under the right circumstances. I dont see it next year unless they provide the $ to visiting teams for travel. It is a great market though, and opening the east would be great for the USHL.

Lewiston as a great market or the East? Lewiston/Auburn is an extreme French Canadian community, if the QMJHL failed there, there's a good chance the USHL will as well, even if they pop six teams on a railroad during a "boom" expansion year. The Pirates themselves don't draw particularly well(outside of this year) and there's a lot more money in Portland than there is in Lewiston, I tell ya what(Maine joke...).

[minor life]

Lewiston and the East. The QMJHL did not do too bad there by USHL standards. The QMJHL costs are nearly 4 times those of the USHL. If I remember correctly they averaged around 2000 a night which would be nice for the USHL to have. Very french yes, but the french have been turning out for the FHL so I think if done right this could be good.

[kwey24]

The USHL in Lewiston...

The QMJHL team averaged how many fans per season? That's going to support a USHL team that has to travel that much and potentially pay for travel of other teams? Is Mark Frankenfeld going to be announced as the new commissioner and president of the USHL?

If Tier I junior A hockey were a good idea in the East, it would have happened already. The EJHL would have bumped up to that. But, it didn't.

So which burgeoning markets that barely averaged over 2,000 fans a game for Double-A hockey are they looking at filling this gap in?

Here's the number of markets out East that make sense for the USHL: 0.

A watered-down USHL isn't going to get the fans accustomed to NCAA D1 college hockey and pro and minor pro hockey riled up. The USHL model requires a certain budget, and these Eastern markets won't cut it. Most have been failures at the Double-A market, achieving attendance levels that wouldn't even support a USHL team. And I can't imagine a lot of teams and leagues currently in USA Hockey would like the draining of their top talent to the USHL even further. I'd tread extremely carefully in expanding the USHL, especially since how many teams in the league are losing money?

Hey, if the Alaska Aces ever fold, let's put a USHL team there, too... (if the NAHL doesn't beat them to it).

If we were talking Louisville, Kentucky, that'd be one thing. But if this moves toward discussion of Lewiston, Johnstown, Wheeling, Elmira, Glens Falls, I don't think so.

[Ryan]

I just don't see it as a good fit right now with Youngstown being the closest team. Of course, a lot felt that way when Youngstown came to the league, so who knows. It's only a 29 hour bus ride from Kearney.

[TheShow]

minor life, on 09 February 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

Lewiston and the East. The QMJHL did not do too bad there by USHL standards. The QMJHL costs are nearly 4 times those of the USHL. If I remember correctly they averaged around 2000 a night which would be nice for the USHL to have. Very french yes, but the french have been turning out for the FHL so I think if done right this could be good.

I can tell you that when I worked for the Maineiacs, every day we walked into the office, we had an attendance number staring us in the face that would make us "break even" for the season on our ticket sales white board(and that's with near sellouts from January through the playoffs). Thanks (and only thanks...) to the Memorial Cup run, we were able to hit that number. Mark Just took the first chance to fold up the ship he could due to the team bleeding money. If the situation is different now than it was back in 06/07, then perhaps it's got a better shot, but the Colisee and the Maineiacs didn't play well together. The Pirates and the Maineiacs didn't play well together. If this becomes a happy, sunshine partnership with all parties involved then maybe, just maybe it could work if the USHL is actually 4x less expensive to operate.

Edited by TheShow, 09 February 2012 - 11:36 AM.

[minor life]

USHL budgets are close to those of AA pro. A QMJHL budget, remembering that scholarship money needs to be put away in cash for those players who have those contracts, can run close to 10 Million a year for some teams. There are many ways they cover these expenses, a lot of teams loose money, but there is no doubt it is more expensive than the USHL. If the East opens up, it will be because some EJHL teams do make the jump IMO. Remember that the owner of the Colisee in Lewiston also runs the arena in Flint and has a pretty good understanding of Tier II now along with Major Junior. With the USHL being somewhere in the middle for arguments sake, this owner would presumably know what he would be getting into.

[TheShow]

minor life, on 09 February 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

USHL budgets are close to those of AA pro. A QMJHL budget, remembering that scholarship money needs to be put away in cash for those players who have those contracts, can run close to 10 Million a year for some teams. There are many ways they cover these expenses, a lot of teams loose money, but there is no doubt it is more expensive than the USHL. If the East opens up, it will be because some EJHL teams do make the jump IMO. Remember that the owner of the Colisee in Lewiston also runs the arena in Flint and has a pretty good understanding of Tier II now along with Major Junior. With the USHL being somewhere in the middle for arguments sake, this owner would presumably know what he would be getting into.

Shrug, there were big changes in place the year after I worked there. The city sold the building(and the city owning the building was the biggest PITA when it came to day to day operations, I can't even imagine the affect it had on finances. If things were going sunny side up after that sale, it would be news to me and probably Mark Just, as attendance took a dip the very next season.

[Yeti]

http://slightlychill...ces.com/?p=1673

Quote

For anyone wondering if the USHL would be making its way to Maine anytime soon, here’s your answer.

No.

USHL spokesman Brian Werger said Thursday morning the league has no plans of adding a team in Maine in the near future following a report in the Lewiston Sun-Journal (Maine). The Sun-Journal quoted Jim Cain, who owns the Androscoggin Bank Colisee about future plans for the building. Cain discussed the facility potentially landing a USHL team.

Quote

Werger also added there doesn’t appear to be any plans for expansion for next season with the league staying at 16 teams for what will be the third season in a row. There had been a possibility of a team coming to Marion, Ind., but plans for the team have stalled in regards to adding a team for the 2012-13 season.

The league has said in the past adding a team is a year to 18-month process making the window, at this point, virtually impossible to add a team unless some unforeseen circumstances were to come up.
“Obviously nice to have teams within our footprint,” Werger said. “We’ve had our eyes out west and out east but a lot of things have to fall in place for that to happen.”

[CC313]

I have heard rumors of the league wanting to top out at 18 teams and then create 3 divisions out of it. I don't remember where I heard it from, but that seems to be cause for a lot of changing of playoffs and logistics.

[kwey24]

Thank God this USHL in Maine stuff can be put to bed.

It would have been a totally out of character for Skip Prince and the USHL to plop a team out in Maine.

Now, to learn if this Cain was talking out of his rectum or if the reporter got the league wrong.

[Storm Chaser]

I guess I'd like to see the USHL stay in the Midwest, from a fan perspective it's nice with teams relatively close together. If I was to expand any I'd say maybe Missouri, Kansas, Minnesota.

[gbpuckfan]

Storm Chaser, on 11 February 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

I guess I'd like to see the USHL stay in the Midwest, from a fan perspective it's nice with teams relatively close together. If I was to expand any I'd say maybe Missouri, Kansas, Minnesota.

Unfortunately, all three of those fall into the "bee, there, done that, failed" category.

* While Minnesota may be the state of hockey, there are no good cities that are candidates. Either they are too small and high school hockey rules, or are big enough but have a D1 team (i.e. Duluth, Mankato, St. Cloud and Bemidji might all be USHL candidates sans their WCHA teams). And given the general predisposition to dislike the USHL, it's not an option.

* There was a team in Topeka. Didn't draw and now that's a NAHL team (or was the last time I checked). Olathe was rumored but never developed. I'm familiar enough with other options.

* St. Louis - actually St. Charles - was an unmitigated disaster in a rink better suited for junior B. That's not to say there aren't medium sized cities elsewhere that might work, but given the travel, etc., they'd better be able to make money.

I agree with your general sentiment that staying in the midwestern footprint is desireable, however. Unfortunately, the best options might end up being minor pro cities that switch, a la Muskegon. And it's always tough for this league to follow in the steps of pro teams. (And I don't think anyone wants to see hockey fail at any level, even if that opens a door for the USHL.)

[Storm Chaser]

Ya I do remember the Topeka Scarecrows, didnt last long in the USHL. And it would ne nice to get into Minnesota but like you said theres too much established hockey already. I just really dislike the idea of eastern expansion.

[wndrkty]

Of course St. Louis was going to fold, the Blues are the biggest thing down there. But what about somewhere like Kansas City, Missouri (or KC, Kansas for that matter). Not much in the way of hockey in that area far as I know. Big enough city to support it. Personally I think the USHL is plenty big and I'm not sure I want to see it expand again. I thought it was the perfect size before we added in Muskegon and Dubuque, but I'm adjusting to the two of them, so if they do expand again I'm sure I'll adjust again.

[hockeypalooza]

wndrkty, on 12 February 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

Of course St. Louis was going to fold, the Blues are the biggest thing down there. But what about somewhere like Kansas City, Missouri (or KC, Kansas for that matter). Not much in the way of hockey in that area far as I know. Big enough city to support it. Personally I think the USHL is plenty big and I'm not sure I want to see it expand again. I thought it was the perfect size before we added in Muskegon and Dubuque, but I'm adjusting to the two of them, so if they do expand again I'm sure I'll adjust again.

Missouri Mavericks

The city of KC itself is trying to get an NHL team someday in their sparkling new arena. Don't know if it will ever happen though.

[JacksJacksJacks]

Kansas City is on the list of cities that need an NHL franchise, but theyre closer to the bottom of the list then the top. It should go:

Seattle
Quebec City
Houston (I still think that it will make a good NHL city)
and KC.