15 replies to this topic

[ECHL Fan]

http://www.wetmtv.co...uk5uMnuAbQ.cspx

http://www.stargazet...150502331370683

http://blip.tv/wenyt...-update-5922096

http://elmira-cornin...ng-foreclosure/

This could get real messy and sounds way worse than the situation in Wheeling.

[minor life]

Unfortunately this is standard operating procedure for the good Dr.

[Miracle on Vanrick]

WETMTV 18: Federal Hockey League visits Elmira's First Arena

Quote

First Arena General Manager Robbie Nichols says the team is not in jeopardy, despite the issues.

On a related note, Federal League officials were at First Arena today to meet with Nichols. Neither side commented on what those discussions were about.

[JacksJacksJacks]

The FHL is a league that I would want to keep my town hundreds and hundreds of miles away from - based on those extremely lopsided boxscores and attendance figures.

Seems like another UHL town is about to go by the wayside - especially if the owner hasn't paid a dime in any taxes in three years.

[ECHL Fan]

I've heard that they really have no interest in the FHL back though

UPDATE:

http://www.stargazet...|text|FRONTPAGE

Taxes not paid, 8 days left.

Playoff ticket info was sent out to season ticket holders last week but no season ticket renewals. They have always come together here. Makes ya think, doesn't it???

[knowyourrole]

Some guys from Canada that i play roller hockey with signed contracts to play in the FHL for a folded cape cod team. They were basically replacements, they got beat 21-0 or something like that. Needless to say they quit without even collecting a paycheck. They said the league is a joke, from the videos ive seen its like the first season of the AAHL. Guys who think they can play, but would rather turn it into a circus. At least the LNAH has legit players on every squad besides goons.


Then i noticed some framiliar faces to kalamazoo playing. Anthony Battaglia, Dan Tessier etc. Sad to see what their careers have become. I would hope Elmira doesnt leave for that shitshow.

[ECHL Fan]

knowyourrole, on 21 February 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

Some guys from Canada that i play roller hockey with signed contracts to play in the FHL for a folded cape cod team. They were basically replacements, they got beat 21-0 or something like that. Needless to say they quit without even collecting a paycheck. They said the league is a joke, from the videos ive seen its like the first season of the AAHL. Guys who think they can play, but would rather turn it into a circus. At least the LNAH has legit players on every squad besides goons.


Then i noticed some framiliar faces to kalamazoo playing. Anthony Battaglia, Dan Tessier etc. Sad to see what their careers have become. I would hope Elmira doesnt leave for that shitshow.

Will never attend a game if it comes.

The leading scorer in that league is ridiculous. They say hes a former NHLer. How he dropped down to the mighty FHL is beyond me.

[kwey24]

knowyourrole, on 21 February 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

Some guys from Canada that i play roller hockey with signed contracts to play in the FHL for a folded cape cod team. They were basically replacements, they got beat 21-0 or something like that. Needless to say they quit without even collecting a paycheck. They said the league is a joke, from the videos ive seen its like the first season of the AAHL. Guys who think they can play, but would rather turn it into a circus. At least the LNAH has legit players on every squad besides goons.


Then i noticed some framiliar faces to kalamazoo playing. Anthony Battaglia, Dan Tessier etc. Sad to see what their careers have become. I would hope Elmira doesnt leave for that shitshow.

The Cape Cod Bluefins were not the team that folded, that was the Vermont Wild. The league went about creating the Delaware Federals to help fill in road schedules, and that was the team that got demolished 21-0 one game. That said, the collection of players that Brendan Tedstone recently put together for the Federals in a game against the Danbury Whalers this past weekend actually won a game (the goalie made 62 saves on 65 shots, or something like that!). Anyway, that is a black eye on the league, but I'd say without hesitation that the FHL is superior this year than last year and could easily improve even more, particularly if it can add markets such as Lewiston, Johnstown, Wheeling, or Elmira, and maybe even Binghamton one day should they ever lose AHL hockey.

The markets I just listed, for the most part, cannot support Double-A hockey or will be very strained to do so. If you subscribe to the general figure that Double-A teams need to average 4,000 fans per game, then most of these markets, on their face, cannot support Double-A hockey. Lewiston's arena only seats 3,607, and Elmira's only seats 3,784. Johnstown seats almost exactly 4,000 for hockey. Wheeling's WesBanco Arena can seat 5,406 for hockey, but the market struggles to fill the arena much past half capacity on most nights (Wheeling is a small market, and not a thriving market, either.) Binghamton is also an AHL throwback market. It's arena only seats 4,710 for hockey, and that doesn't give it any breathing room for increasing costs in the AHL, and Binghamton is not a big market, either. Not along the lines of most other AHL markets.

The FHL can grow to become a league where most of the teams play in legitimate all-purpose arenas (albeit it smaller ones), where Danbury's arena is on the small side and so is its attendance (because of its limited seating capacity compared to the other arenas). But, if the FHL can operate under a model where a team playing in an arena similar to Danbury's can succeed at 1,750 fans per game and around 2,000 fans per game for the teams playing in larger arenas, they could have something--a league that helps save hockey in these areas.

Would all of the current FHL markets make the transition to this higher caliber of FHL? No, of course not. Even if the Bluefins sold out the HYCC in this hypothetical model, they'd struggle to keep up, and it doesn't look like Cape Cod is a threat to fill the HYCC. Of course 1000 Islands would have to relocate (probably will have to this summer), so would Akwesasne with their current attendance, and so would the New Jersey Outlaws. If the Islanders were to choose to play in the Barclay Center, even if it is a bit small by NHL standards, kiss the Aviators goodbye (their attendance is already poor). But, that's not necessarily death for the FHL if they can add these other markets that have traditionally had Double-A hockey.

Double-A hockey is already contracting, so the pool of players that FHL has to pick from improves, and if the FHL were to move into venues we're all accustomed to having Double-A hockey but which can no longer support that level, I think the caliber of player that considers playing in the FHL only goes up. From what I can tell, it's already increased from last season.

This is to say nothing of any potential expansion in the Midwest around Danville, either.

People may miss their Double-A hockey, but they'll also have to come to grips with the fact that their markets can't support Double-A hockey (or potentially Triple-A hockey in Binghamton's case, if they ever lose the B-Sens). Most of these markets can't support USHL-caliber junior hockey, either. So, we're looking at the FHL or the NAHL. I say FHL, because there's already plenty of NAHL teams and the NAHL has already expanded willy-nilly. I'd like to see players who played in the NAHL actually have someplace to play someday (likely after college), even if only few a handful of seasons before they utilize their degrees.

[ECHL Fan]

Well the foreclosure has gone bye bye, Afr paid up:

http://www.wetmtv.co...eb_iphone%3Ac.m

Given his track record this catches me a bit off guard

[JacksJacksJacks]

Right after such a long post, too! With a 3,784 arena, a potential USHL expansion raises a Spock eyebrow.

Get a better owner, though. Shouldn't have to come to that.

[ECHL Fan]

Apparently it's not over, a vote is coming by the County legislation:

http://www.wetmtv.co...Unze1r2VRA.cspx

[ECHL Fan]

JacksJacksJacks, on 21 February 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

Right after such a long post, too! With a 3,784 arena, a potential USHL expansion raises a Spock eyebrow.

Get a better owner, though. Shouldn't have to come to that.

Won't fly, we already have college hockey in town.

[Miracle on Vanrick]

The Corning Leader/Derrick Ek: Judge sides with county in First Arena ruling

Quote

Afr’s son Tamer Afr, who serves as Jackals president, said he wanted the team to stay in Elmira but indicated it was very unlikely.
“They’re taking away our building, and they’ve treated us horribly,” he said.

He said it would be a “big tangled mess” if the Afrs weren’t operating the arena anymore and said he “wouldn’t keep throwing money into an area where we’re not wanted.” He said there also might be issues with the ECHL, because the Jackals wouldn’t have a lease agreement in place in time for next season. There are other cities that would be interested in bringing in the Jackals, he added.

[kwey24]

Bummer for the fans if they end up without hockey in 2012-13.

Methinks the ECHL will be hard-pressed to find an owner to operate out of Elmira without managing it, as that can reduce costs some. I don't think Elmira can support an ECHL team long term anyway, but it becomes even more troublesome if it's under a more standard agreement where one entity operates the arena (such as Global Spectrum, SMG, or one of the other regular suspects) and then another entity owns the hockey team. Elmira's arena is flat out too small to support an ECHL operation done that way.

If Elmira loses ECHL hockey, there are only two leagues nimble/desperate enough to take advantage of this quickly enough--the NAHL and the FHL. I'm sure the NAHL would have a handful of teams asking about relocating to Elmira (especially now with Johnstown getting the Alaska Avalanche). If only half the ECHL fans come to the NAHL games, it might still make money or come close to breaking even (would depend on the lease agreement).

I'm unaware of a USHL team looking to relocate ASAP, and it would boggle my mind if a USHL team could get up and running for the Futures Draft this quickly. You'd almost have to hire Bliss Littler and hope all of his scouts come with him.

If Elmira loses ECHL hockey, I personally would be thrilled if the FHL got a well-run team placed there. Unfortunately, I doubt nearly as many people in the Elmira area would be as thrilled (which is unfortunate). If it were to come to be a USHL team fills the market (be it in 2012-13 or 2013-14), I would hope that Elmira fans would not just dismiss it. I respect Elmira College and all, but it's not the USHL. (Also, does Elmira College sell beer at their games). The NAHL would be a tougher sell in comparison to Elmira College, although it is decent hockey.

[Chaulker]

Quote

The Afrs also have a separate lawsuit filed in Chemung County Supreme Court against Robbie Nichols, former general manager of First Arena, and his former assistant, Donald Lewis.
Among other things, the lawsuit claims Nichols was responsible for the taxes not being paid on time. It also claims that Nichols and Lewis were trying to sabotage the Jackals and were using proprietary information to recruit the team’s sponsors for the Elmira Pioneers baseball team.

Sounds like a lovely situation.

[Mr Ricochet]

kwey24, on 27 April 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

I'm unaware of a USHL team looking to relocate ASAP, and it would boggle my mind if a USHL team could get up and running for the Futures Draft this quickly. You'd almost have to hire Bliss Littler and hope all of his scouts come with him.

I too think it's too late in the year for the USHL to try and place a team in Elmira for next year, but it'll be interesting to watch, and hear rumors about. Cedar Rapids having a developmental agreement with Connecticut Oilers of the EJHL gave the rumors of the USHL trying to put down roots on the East Coast a lot of legs, and now Elmira seemingly opens up.

Interesting in a lot of ways, this Elmira situation. It should also be noted that the fans supported the Jackals to the tune of 3,320 this year.