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Rating The Junior Hockey Leagues Tier II United States And Canada 2017 Edition


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#1 Mr Ricochet

 

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 10:14 AM

TJHN  Link


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#2 Mr Ricochet

 

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 10:22 AM

The NAHL continues to separate itself from all other Tier II leagues when it comes to marketing players to higher levels of hockey.  While it is not the USHL, many teams are now actively doing more work to move players on to the USHL.  An official development agreement being worked upon between the NAHL and USHL has continued to improve the NAHL product.

 

Can you go into more detail on this, ML?


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#3 minor life

 

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 10:43 AM

With the USPHL fall out under USA Hockey, the two leagues need to align.  This is the "ladder of development" implementation that everyone has been preaching.  Until the NAHL received the Tier II challenge from the USPHL, they had no need to officially align themselves with the USHL.  Now, when looking at the turf war out east, this is almost essential to both leagues.  If not essential, it is certainly smart.

 

The agreement, should if rumor is true, create the ability for player movement between the two leagues without extreme compensation provisions.  Without those provisions in place in the past, some NAHL players never new a USHL team was looking at them.  Conversely some USHL players were gently encouraged to go to the BCHL.

 

This agreement should look a lot like an NHL - AHL agreement in principal.  Smart business by both leagues, and makes both more attractive to many players, especially import players.  Its been a long time coming.

 

Keep in mind Canadian Junior A, or Tier II is not allowed any European players.  This provision could be a boon for Europeans in the United States.  Then again, unlimited imports in the NCDC coould prove to be a Bull market for Europeans and Canadian players alike.

 

The "ladder of development" is changing.  Its changing in Canada as well.  Whats right or wrong is for others to decide, but it certainly is interesting to watch.


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#4 Mr Ricochet

 

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 11:30 AM

Didn't realize there were even rumors of an official agreement between the NAHL and USHL.   ...... Is the NAHL satisfied with Tier II status or are they looking for a higher Tier I status in the future?  But you do lay out a reasonable scenario of the pluses to such an affiliation.

 

USHL has encouraged affiliated players to go to the BCHL instead of the NAHL? 

 

And this will be year 1 of the NCDC so that of course is something to watch in the hockey ladder equation. 


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#5 Maiden

 

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 11:52 AM

Didn't realize there were even rumors of an official agreement between the NAHL and USHL.   ...... Is the NAHL satisfied with Tier II status or are they looking for a higher Tier I status in the future?  But you do lay out a reasonable scenario of the pluses to such an affiliation.

 

USHL has encouraged affiliated players to go to the BCHL instead of the NAHL? 

 

And this will be year 1 of the NCDC so that of course is something to watch in the hockey ladder equation. 

I have not found that the case over the years. Majority of the kids I know have had there USHL team contact a NAHL team for a roster spot.



#6 minor life

 

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 12:16 PM

I didnt say every time players are refered to the BCHL.  I didnt say the "league" encouraged players to go to the BCHL.  I said "some" players.  Some were, and it was becaus the coaches who did it, didnt necessarily trust the NAHL team to return the player if that player were wanted back. 

 

Your experience Maiden may be different than mine, as other peoples experiences may or may not be different.  You said the "majority" of kids, that certainly doesn't mean every kid you know had a USHL coach call an NAHL coach to get them a spot.  Some USHL coaches still have the opinion that the BCHL is better than the NAHL.  I said some not all.  The NAHL as a league was aware of this opinion existing in some organizations.  

 

Many reasons are behind an official agreement how ever it ends up being framed.

 

Think about this though....

 

If you are an NAHL owner, this agreement would in effect be an agreement to be subservient to the USHL.  It would then change USA Hockey's self stated description of the "Tier" system.  Under USA Hockey the "Tiers" are NOT differences in the quality or level of talent in a league.  Officially the "Tiers" are only differences in how the finances of each team are managed or how each team is funded and what each team provides.

 

Under this scenario, it changes things to a level of play measurement as well as an amenity, and financial measurement.  

 

Imagine this though, and I am not saying this will happen, I am not saying any discussions I am aware of have taken place.  I say "imagine".  What if the NCDC is a success?  What would have happened if they remained under USA Hockey, and the NAHL had to compete with that Tier II successful competitor?  Who would the USHL aligned themselves with then?  Would the NAHL not had as many call ups or development promotions as they have had recently?  Would the value of NAHL franchises remain the same?

 

Lots of business behind these "hockey" decisions.


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#7 Glenn Gumbley

 

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 12:51 PM

 

Didn't realize there were even rumors of an official agreement between the NAHL and USHL.   ...... Is the NAHL satisfied with Tier II status or are they looking for a higher Tier I status in the future?  But you do lay out a reasonable scenario of the pluses to such an affiliation.

 

USHL has encouraged affiliated players to go to the BCHL instead of the NAHL? 

 

And this will be year 1 of the NCDC so that of course is something to watch in the hockey ladder equation. 

I have not found that the case over the years. Majority of the kids I know have had there USHL team contact a NAHL team for a roster spot.

 

Ditto!

 

How can you use an AP who is a member of a completely different IIHF?



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Posted 19 July 2017 - 12:55 PM

Who said anything about AP?  Seriously?


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#9 Glenn Gumbley

 

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 12:59 PM

Who said anything about AP?  Seriously?

 

What are "affiliated players"?


Edited by Glenn Gumbley, 19 July 2017 - 12:59 PM.


#10 Mr Ricochet

 

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 01:19 PM

 

Who said anything about AP?  Seriously?

 

What are "affiliated players"?

 

 

I'm the one who referred to affiliated players.  That was just an assumption on my part.   Good thread, hopefully it's not mucked up. 


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#11 Glenn Gumbley

 

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 01:26 PM

 

 

Who said anything about AP?  Seriously?

 

What are "affiliated players"?

 

 

I'm the one who referred to affiliated players.  That was just an assumption on my part.   Good thread, hopefully it's not mucked up. 

 

"Your experience Maiden may be different than mine, as other peoples experiences may or may not be different.  You said the "majority" of kids, that certainly doesn't mean every kid you know had a USHL coach call an NAHL coach to get them a spot.  Some USHL coaches still have the opinion that the BCHL is better than the NAHL.  I said some not all.  The NAHL as a league was aware of this opinion existing in some organizations."

 

USHL coaches don't want to lose players to the BCHL, and would much prefer they played in the States for obvious reason so darn rights they would call an NAHL coach, but a good adviser would be calling coaches in the BCHL, AJHL, OJHL...etc.


Edited by Glenn Gumbley, 19 July 2017 - 01:27 PM.


#12 Glenn Gumbley

 

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 02:20 PM

With the USPHL fall out under USA Hockey, the two leagues need to align.  This is the "ladder of development" implementation that everyone has been preaching.  Until the NAHL received the Tier II challenge from the USPHL, they had no need to officially align themselves with the USHL.  Now, when looking at the turf war out east, this is almost essential to both leagues.  If not essential, it is certainly smart.

 

The agreement, should if rumor is true, create the ability for player movement between the two leagues without extreme compensation provisions.  Without those provisions in place in the past, some NAHL players never new a USHL team was looking at them.  Conversely some USHL players were gently encouraged to go to the BCHL.

 

This agreement should look a lot like an NHL - AHL agreement in principal.  Smart business by both leagues, and makes both more attractive to many players, especially import players.  Its been a long time coming.

 

Keep in mind Canadian Junior A, or Tier II is not allowed any European players.  This provision could be a boon for Europeans in the United States.  Then again, unlimited imports in the NCDC coould prove to be a Bull market for Europeans and Canadian players alike.

 

The "ladder of development" is changing.  Its changing in Canada as well.  Whats right or wrong is for others to decide, but it certainly is interesting to watch.

 

You must know different USHL GMs, Coaches, then I do. When I threw this at them they basically said, "Say what!" but not in those terms.



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Posted 19 July 2017 - 02:36 PM

 

 

 

Who said anything about AP?  Seriously?

 

What are "affiliated players"?

 

 

I'm the one who referred to affiliated players.  That was just an assumption on my part.   Good thread, hopefully it's not mucked up. 

 

"Your experience Maiden may be different than mine, as other peoples experiences may or may not be different.  You said the "majority" of kids, that certainly doesn't mean every kid you know had a USHL coach call an NAHL coach to get them a spot.  Some USHL coaches still have the opinion that the BCHL is better than the NAHL.  I said some not all.  The NAHL as a league was aware of this opinion existing in some organizations."

 

USHL coaches don't want to lose players to the BCHL, and would much prefer they played in the States for obvious reason so darn rights they would call an NAHL coach, but a good adviser would be calling coaches in the BCHL, AJHL, OJHL...etc.

 

Don't take my word for it; go thru the transaction pages of past years.  And I enjoy the BCHL as a league for the record.


Edited by Maiden, 19 July 2017 - 02:37 PM.


#14 Glenn Gumbley

 

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 02:52 PM

 

 

 

 

Who said anything about AP?  Seriously?

 

What are "affiliated players"?

 

 

I'm the one who referred to affiliated players.  That was just an assumption on my part.   Good thread, hopefully it's not mucked up. 

 

"Your experience Maiden may be different than mine, as other peoples experiences may or may not be different.  You said the "majority" of kids, that certainly doesn't mean every kid you know had a USHL coach call an NAHL coach to get them a spot.  Some USHL coaches still have the opinion that the BCHL is better than the NAHL.  I said some not all.  The NAHL as a league was aware of this opinion existing in some organizations."

 

USHL coaches don't want to lose players to the BCHL, and would much prefer they played in the States for obvious reason so darn rights they would call an NAHL coach, but a good adviser would be calling coaches in the BCHL, AJHL, OJHL...etc.

 

Don't take my word for it; go thru the transaction pages of past years.  And I enjoy the BCHL as a league for the record.

 

 

As you said; "I have not found that the case over the years. Majority of the kids I know have had there USHL team contact a NAHL team for a roster spot." I know you are right so I for one take your word for it. As far as the BCHL is concerned quite a few USHL players end up there but it is usually because their Adviser helped to find them a spot not a USHL coach... or the BCHL coach gets word and goes after the kid.


Edited by Glenn Gumbley, 19 July 2017 - 02:53 PM.


#15 Mr Ricochet

 

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 07:28 AM

 

 

 

Who said anything about AP?  Seriously?

 

What are "affiliated players"?

 

 

I'm the one who referred to affiliated players.  That was just an assumption on my part.   Good thread, hopefully it's not mucked up. 

 

"Your experience Maiden may be different than mine, as other peoples experiences may or may not be different.  You said the "majority" of kids, that certainly doesn't mean every kid you know had a USHL coach call an NAHL coach to get them a spot.  Some USHL coaches still have the opinion that the BCHL is better than the NAHL.  I said some not all.  The NAHL as a league was aware of this opinion existing in some organizations."

 

USHL coaches don't want to lose players to the BCHL, and would much prefer they played in the States for obvious reason so darn rights they would call an NAHL coach, but a good adviser would be calling coaches in the BCHL, AJHL, OJHL...etc.

 

 

Why are you posting others posts/words under your name, Glenn? 


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#16 Glenn Gumbley

 

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 08:11 AM

 

 

 

 

Who said anything about AP?  Seriously?

 

What are "affiliated players"?

 

 

I'm the one who referred to affiliated players.  That was just an assumption on my part.   Good thread, hopefully it's not mucked up. 

 

"Your experience Maiden may be different than mine, as other peoples experiences may or may not be different.  You said the "majority" of kids, that certainly doesn't mean every kid you know had a USHL coach call an NAHL coach to get them a spot.  Some USHL coaches still have the opinion that the BCHL is better than the NAHL.  I said some not all.  The NAHL as a league was aware of this opinion existing in some organizations."

 

USHL coaches don't want to lose players to the BCHL, and would much prefer they played in the States for obvious reason so darn rights they would call an NAHL coach, but a good adviser would be calling coaches in the BCHL, AJHL, OJHL...etc.

 

 

Why are you posting others posts/words under your name, Glenn? 

 

 

Why are you posting under the name Mr Ricochet?



#17 Mr Ricochet

 

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 08:28 AM

 

 

 

 

 

Who said anything about AP?  Seriously?

 

What are "affiliated players"?

 

 

I'm the one who referred to affiliated players.  That was just an assumption on my part.   Good thread, hopefully it's not mucked up. 

 

"Your experience Maiden may be different than mine, as other peoples experiences may or may not be different.  You said the "majority" of kids, that certainly doesn't mean every kid you know had a USHL coach call an NAHL coach to get them a spot.  Some USHL coaches still have the opinion that the BCHL is better than the NAHL.  I said some not all.  The NAHL as a league was aware of this opinion existing in some organizations."

 

USHL coaches don't want to lose players to the BCHL, and would much prefer they played in the States for obvious reason so darn rights they would call an NAHL coach, but a good adviser would be calling coaches in the BCHL, AJHL, OJHL...etc.

 

 

Why are you posting others posts/words under your name, Glenn? 

 

 

Why are you posting under the name Mr Ricochet?

 

 

Posts #11 are your words, Glenn? 


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#18 Glenn Gumbley

 

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 08:39 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Who said anything about AP?  Seriously?

 

What are "affiliated players"?

 

 

I'm the one who referred to affiliated players.  That was just an assumption on my part.   Good thread, hopefully it's not mucked up. 

 

"Your experience Maiden may be different than mine, as other peoples experiences may or may not be different.  You said the "majority" of kids, that certainly doesn't mean every kid you know had a USHL coach call an NAHL coach to get them a spot.  Some USHL coaches still have the opinion that the BCHL is better than the NAHL.  I said some not all.  The NAHL as a league was aware of this opinion existing in some organizations."

 

USHL coaches don't want to lose players to the BCHL, and would much prefer they played in the States for obvious reason so darn rights they would call an NAHL coach, but a good adviser would be calling coaches in the BCHL, AJHL, OJHL...etc.

 

 

Why are you posting others posts/words under your name, Glenn? 

 

 

Why are you posting under the name Mr Ricochet?

 

 

Posts #11 are your words, Glenn? 

 

 

USHL coaches don't want to lose players to the BCHL, and would much prefer they played in the States for obvious reason so darn rights they would call an NAHL coach, but a good adviser would be calling coaches in the BCHL, AJHL, OJHL...etc.

 

If you are referring to the above, what is your point?



#19 Mr Ricochet

 

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 08:49 AM

You're wasting my time and cluttering this site, Glenn.   Are these your words from post #11, Glenn?

 

"Your experience Maiden may be different than mine, as other peoples experiences may or may not be different.  You said the "majority" of kids, that certainly doesn't mean every kid you know had a USHL coach call an NAHL coach to get them a spot.  Some USHL coaches still have the opinion that the BCHL is better than the NAHL.  I said some not all.  The NAHL as a league was aware of this opinion existing in some organizations."

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#20 Glenn Gumbley

 

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 09:30 AM

 

You're wasting my time and cluttering this site, Glenn.   Are these your words from post #11, Glenn?

 

 

 

"Your experience Maiden may be different than mine, as other peoples experiences may or may not be different.  You said the "majority" of kids, that certainly doesn't mean every kid you know had a USHL coach call an NAHL coach to get them a spot.  Some USHL coaches still have the opinion that the BCHL is better than the NAHL.  I said some not all.  The NAHL as a league was aware of this opinion existing in some organizations."

 

 

Not my words. Your BFF ML's words. Sorry for wasting your time and cluttering up the sight does that mean you don't want me to spend the time rating the leagues?