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2017 USHL Phase II (Entry) Draft

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Mr Ricochet    3
Mr Ricochet

Any impressions on how Muskegon did in this draft?

I followed the draft on their twitter page and looked up the guys in eliteprospects... seems like they got a few good ones.

Also what do you think about them trading their 1st round pick for 3 players?

 

I'm swamped but when I get through the Steel draft first thing I'll do is see what your guy Scott Bradford has to say. Love his informed call of Jack games but it was his LEAGUE wide analysis of ALL the trade deadline moves that moved him way up in my book. He gets paid to do Jack work but this guy has it in his blood, he's genuinely curious paid or not.

 

What I'm saying is Bradford will, if he hasn't already, break down the Jack draft in a professional way. Plus you have Opfermann at Mlive and the two guys at LSJ, who I see have something about the trade. http://localsportsjournal.com/2017/05/lumberjacks-trade-for-veteran-forwards-then-select-more-forwards-with-top-draft-picks/

 

 

A lot at Mlive, too: http://www.mlive.com/lumberjacks/

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minor life    2
minor life

Thats a tough comparison to make. Some organizations are really good at scouting. Since Mervis was mentioned today I can tell you that working with his organization has always been like working with an NHL team. Scouting budgets were huge, and scouts always followed up on leads. Trips to Europe and all over North America were always the norm. Those organizations and their operating structure are second only to NHL teams.

 

Some Major Junior teams are the same. A lot of those teams though rely on AAA coaches for their input. The OHL is very active in the HPHL and Tier 1 leagues. The even sponsor some showcase events now. Largely though Major Junior scouting is a limited pay or non paid position with guys trying to work into organizations. Because Major Junior leagues have their scouting territory limited by CHL agreements, they are confined, yet that makes scouting easier for them.

 

In general the USHL has no scouting constraints because they have no competition. Thats the big difference and a big advantage IMO. The USHL though does play too many politics in many cases. It is arguably more political than Major Junior now. USHL teams are only limited by their own financial constraints and personnel.

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Mr Ricochet    3
Mr Ricochet

Thats a tough comparison to make. Some organizations are really good at scouting. Since Mervis was mentioned today I can tell you that working with his organization has always been like working with an NHL team. Scouting budgets were huge, and scouts always followed up on leads. Trips to Europe and all over North America were always the norm. Those organizations and their operating structure are second only to NHL teams.

 

Some Major Junior teams are the same. A lot of those teams though rely on AAA coaches for their input. The OHL is very active in the HPHL and Tier 1 leagues. The even sponsor some showcase events now. Largely though Major Junior scouting is a limited pay or non paid position with guys trying to work into organizations. Because Major Junior leagues have their scouting territory limited by CHL agreements, they are confined, yet that makes scouting easier for them.

 

In general the USHL has no scouting constraints because they have no competition. Thats the big difference and a big advantage IMO. The USHL though does play too many politics in many cases. It is arguably more political than Major Junior now. USHL teams are only limited by their own financial constraints and personnel.

 

 

Thank you, ML. Very helpful. Man the world is a big place when you're bringing in kids from all over Europe, the former Soviet Union (kinda Europe kinda Asia) and North America. I have to believe as far as the USHL goes networking, coaches and contacts all over the world, is probably most important followed by the scouting itself, no? You just can't have that many bodies as a junior operation on so many continents to find players under the radar, no?

 

And as you mention scouting is restricted only by your own budget in the USHL. That's where, as well as paying top coaches, you can get an advantage, a big one IMO. ML check out the list of Steel hockey ops and their listed scouting staff. That has to rank with most any junior team in this or any other league, no? http://www.chicagosteelhockeyteam.com/page/show/2725102-coaches-hockey-staff

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Hobbs    0
Hobbs

Any impressions on how Muskegon did in this draft?

I followed the draft on their twitter page and looked up the guys in eliteprospects... seems like they got a few good ones.

Also what do you think about them trading their 1st round pick for 3 players?

Muskegon made out very well in their trade with Tri-City. They're bringing in a couple seasoned USHL players in Bongiovanni and Graham, plus another player who started seeing ice time with the Storm this season. "Bon Jovi" is no doubt the player in the trade; he'll fit in nicely among the top six. Graham and Bendorf will also get in and do work, but probably more so as depth players. That said, '17-'18 will be Graham's third year in the league, so he could step up to be a big contributor too.

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Jimmythegreek    0
Jimmythegreek

 

Muskegon took Dylan st.cry but isn't he going to notre dame in the fall?

 

Not if Cal Petersen decides to not sign in Buffalo.

 

Peterson does NOT have to sign with buffalo and will 100% be an UFA on June 1st 2017 ( this year ).

 

95% certain he notified Buffalo that he is no longer a full time NCAA student which makes him an UFA 30 days later or June 1st ( because of his age and when he was drafted )

 

See Mike Reilly of Wild, same situation 2 years ago

Edited by Jimmythegreek

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Maiden    2
Maiden

 

Any impressions on how Muskegon did in this draft?

I followed the draft on their twitter page and looked up the guys in eliteprospects... seems like they got a few good ones.

Also what do you think about them trading their 1st round pick for 3 players?

Muskegon made out very well in their trade with Tri-City. They're bringing in a couple seasoned USHL players in Bongiovanni and Graham, plus another player who started seeing ice time with the Storm this season. "Bon Jovi" is no doubt the player in the trade; he'll fit in nicely among the top six. Graham and Bendorf will also get in and do work, but probably more so as depth players. That said, '17-'18 will be Graham's third year in the league, so he could step up to be a big contributor too.

 

3rd team in 2 seasons doesn't sound an alarm to anyone?

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Mr Ricochet    3
Mr Ricochet

This is kind of a double post but I totally finished all of the Steel's Phase II if anyone is interested.

 

 

 

 

Steel Phase II

 

Steel Site Steel Phase I and II draft recap

Rd 1 pick 2, Jonathan Dugan Center, 98. Ranked by Central Scouting 108th NA skaters for 2017 draft: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=345694

 

Rd 1 14th pick, Derek Schaedig Goalie, 98. Played with Janesville Jets this year. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=436851

 

Rd 2 14th pick, CJ Walker Forward 99. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=283592

 

Rd 3 14th pick, Matej Pekar Forward 2000 Represented the Czech national team: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=271642

 

Rd 5 7th pick, John Dahlstrom LW 97. This kid has played internationally for Sveeeeeden since he was 16, drafted by the Chicago Blackhawks in the 7th round in 2015 and put up 59 points in 63 games for Medicine Hat of the WHL this year: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=212530

 

Rd 6 15th pick, Liam Gorman, center, 2000. Also drafted in the 8th round of the QMJHL draft in 2016. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=364228

 

Rd 7 1st pick, Jack Clement, Dman, 99. Dman put up 48 points in 29 HS games this year at 6ft 3in 175lbs. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=201498

 

Rd 8 3rd pick, Alex Pollock, LW, 99. Played 8 NAHL games after Minnesota HS this year and put up 5 points. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=201526

 

Rd 8 14th pick, Austin Magera, center, 98. Georgia boy (there's some scouting) and a Sacred Heart Commit. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=354882

 

Rd 10 14th pick, Tim Clifton, RW, 98. Invited and played in the OHL Cup in 13/14 and put up 17 points in 17 games this year in the AYHL. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=291856

 

Rd 12 14th pick, Robbie Stucker, Dman, 98. As a Dman put up 40 points in 25 HS games this year, drafted by Waterloo and Bloomington in previous years, is ranked 88th on Central Scouting's list for NA skaters for this year's NHL draft, Colorado College commit. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=300993

 

Rd 13 14th pick, Maxwell Newton, C/LW, 97. Canadian boy, 153 BCHL games including 59 points in 58 BCHL games this year. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=277350

 

Rd 14 14th pick, Ty Amonte, RW, 98. Two games with the NTDP U-18's in 15/16 and 37 points in 58 games for Penticon of the BCHL this year, his pops is Tony Amonte, Boston U commit. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=300928

 

Rd 15 14th pick, Christophe Fillion, forward, 2000. Played HS up in Canada and came down to play 65 games for Iowa Wild U-16's this year: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=376630

 

Rd 16 14th pick, Michael Posma, center, a December 2001. Invited and played in the OHL Cup this year: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=406422

 

 

 

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minor life    2
minor life

 

 

Muskegon took Dylan st.cry but isn't he going to notre dame in the fall?

 

Not if Cal Petersen decides to not sign in Buffalo.

 

Peterson does NOT have to sign with buffalo and will 100% be an UFA on June 1st 2017 ( this year ).

 

95% certain he notified Buffalo that he is no longer a full time NCAA student which makes him an UFA 30 days later or June 1st ( because of his age and when he was drafted )

 

See Mike Reilly of Wild, same situation 2 years ago

 

If Botterill becomes GM in Buffalo as I am hearing will happen. Look for that to change and the Muskegon pick to have been wasted.

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Left Behind    0
Left Behind

Thats a tough comparison to make. Some organizations are really good at scouting. Since Mervis was mentioned today I can tell you that working with his organization has always been like working with an NHL team. Scouting budgets were huge, and scouts always followed up on leads. Trips to Europe and all over North America were always the norm. Those organizations and their operating structure are second only to NHL teams.

 

Some Major Junior teams are the same. A lot of those teams though rely on AAA coaches for their input. The OHL is very active in the HPHL and Tier 1 leagues. The even sponsor some showcase events now. Largely though Major Junior scouting is a limited pay or non paid position with guys trying to work into organizations. Because Major Junior leagues have their scouting territory limited by CHL agreements, they are confined, yet that makes scouting easier for them.

 

In general the USHL has no scouting constraints because they have no competition. Thats the big difference and a big advantage IMO. The USHL though does play too many politics in many cases. It is arguably more political than Major Junior now. USHL teams are only limited by their own financial constraints and personnel.

Now that post is real funny! Rely on AAA Coaches...you are kidding right? Every CHL team "is very active in Tier I leagues all of them and they can scout any league but are limited to the States and Provinces they can draft and list from.

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Iowa Blue's fan    0
Iowa Blue's fan

Cal just finished his junior year?? FA in 2018, not this year I believe.

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Iowa Blue's fan    0
Iowa Blue's fan

Cal just finished his junior year?? FA in 2018, not this year I believe.

Doing a little research, I could be wrong.

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minor life    2
minor life

 

 

Muskegon took Dylan st.cry but isn't he going to notre dame in the fall?

 

Not if Cal Petersen decides to not sign in Buffalo.

 

Peterson does NOT have to sign with buffalo and will 100% be an UFA on June 1st 2017 ( this year ).

 

95% certain he notified Buffalo that he is no longer a full time NCAA student which makes him an UFA 30 days later or June 1st ( because of his age and when he was drafted )

 

See Mike Reilly of Wild, same situation 2 years ago

 

The FA date for Petersen is August 1. Example Vesey to Rangers. Not aware of any loophole change that date if he is no longer a full time student.

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Canarse    2
Canarse

 

Thats a tough comparison to make. Some organizations are really good at scouting. Since Mervis was mentioned today I can tell you that working with his organization has always been like working with an NHL team. Scouting budgets were huge, and scouts always followed up on leads. Trips to Europe and all over North America were always the norm. Those organizations and their operating structure are second only to NHL teams.

 

Some Major Junior teams are the same. A lot of those teams though rely on AAA coaches for their input. The OHL is very active in the HPHL and Tier 1 leagues. The even sponsor some showcase events now. Largely though Major Junior scouting is a limited pay or non paid position with guys trying to work into organizations. Because Major Junior leagues have their scouting territory limited by CHL agreements, they are confined, yet that makes scouting easier for them.

 

In general the USHL has no scouting constraints because they have no competition. Thats the big difference and a big advantage IMO. The USHL though does play too many politics in many cases. It is arguably more political than Major Junior now. USHL teams are only limited by their own financial constraints and personnel.

Now that post is real funny! Rely on AAA Coaches...you are kidding right? Every CHL team "is very active in Tier I leagues all of them and they can scout any league but are limited to the States and Provinces they can draft and list from.

 

 

I don't know about the CHL, but the USHL definitely listens to some Tier1 coaches. I've seen it happen.

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minor life    2
minor life

"I don't know about the CHL, but the USHL definitely listens to some Tier1 coaches. I've seen it happen."

 

Every organization is different. I see AAA coaching influence, but the better teams have great scouting networks and good scouts. That's not to say they don't miss players because they do. There are just too many players to see every year. But if you are in one of the top AAA or prep programs, your odds are dramatically better than being in an outlier program.

 

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ChrisDilks    0
ChrisDilks

 

 

 

Muskegon took Dylan st.cry but isn't he going to notre dame in the fall?

 

Not if Cal Petersen decides to not sign in Buffalo.

 

Peterson does NOT have to sign with buffalo and will 100% be an UFA on June 1st 2017 ( this year ).

 

95% certain he notified Buffalo that he is no longer a full time NCAA student which makes him an UFA 30 days later or June 1st ( because of his age and when he was drafted )

 

See Mike Reilly of Wild, same situation 2 years ago

 

The FA date for Petersen is August 1. Example Vesey to Rangers. Not aware of any loophole change that date if he is no longer a full time student.

 

 

An NHL team gets an NCAA-bound player for four years or until that player exhausts his college eligibility. Since Petersen played his Draft+1 year in Waterloo, he's played four full seasons since being drafted. If he formally withdraws from school, his NHL club has 30 days to sign him or he becomes a free agent. It's the same way Mike Reilly, Justin Schultz, and Blake Wheeler became free agents before graduating.

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Left Behind    0
Left Behind

 

 

Thats a tough comparison to make. Some organizations are really good at scouting. Since Mervis was mentioned today I can tell you that working with his organization has always been like working with an NHL team. Scouting budgets were huge, and scouts always followed up on leads. Trips to Europe and all over North America were always the norm. Those organizations and their operating structure are second only to NHL teams.

 

Some Major Junior teams are the same. A lot of those teams though rely on AAA coaches for their input. The OHL is very active in the HPHL and Tier 1 leagues. The even sponsor some showcase events now. Largely though Major Junior scouting is a limited pay or non paid position with guys trying to work into organizations. Because Major Junior leagues have their scouting territory limited by CHL agreements, they are confined, yet that makes scouting easier for them.

 

In general the USHL has no scouting constraints because they have no competition. Thats the big difference and a big advantage IMO. The USHL though does play too many politics in many cases. It is arguably more political than Major Junior now. USHL teams are only limited by their own financial constraints and personnel.

Now that post is real funny! Rely on AAA Coaches...you are kidding right? Every CHL team "is very active in Tier I leagues all of them and they can scout any league but are limited to the States and Provinces they can draft and list from.

 

I don't know about the CHL, but the USHL definitely listens to some Tier1 coaches. I've seen it happen.

 

Any GM or scouting staff who rely solely on what a Tier I coach says about a player aren’t doing their job. A Tier I coach has a responsibility to sell his players and try and move them up for the good of the organization and his job so anything they say has to be taken with a grain of salt. You have to watch the player play and project what they might do at the next level. There are so many opportunities to watch players there is no excuse for not doing so and it is only a matter of where to go to look, and for those of us who can freely go back and forth between the Canadian and US Borders the options are unlimited. A better resource then a Tier I coach are the US College assistants, the CHL scouts, and the NHL scouting staffs, especially with Euros, all of whom have done their due diligence and can help to make the decision where to go or where not to go. Those relationships are built on credibility and friendships. As an example, how do you think LeRose and Varady came up with Pospisil and Tolvanen it wasn’t by talking to Tier I coaches. Take a look at SC’s Draft see if there is a familiar name there.

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Canarse    2
Canarse

 

Any GM or scouting staff who rely solely on what a Tier I coach says about a player aren’t doing their job. A Tier I coach has a responsibility to sell his players and try and move them up for the good of the organization and his job so anything they say has to be taken with a grain of salt. You have to watch the player play and project what they might do at the next level. There are so many opportunities to watch players there is no excuse for not doing so and it is only a matter of where to go to look, and for those of us who can freely go back and forth between the Canadian and US Borders the options are unlimited. A better resource then a Tier I coach are the US College assistants, the CHL scouts, and the NHL scouting staffs, especially with Euros, all of whom have done their due diligence and can help to make the decision where to go or where not to go. Those relationships are built on credibility and friendships. As an example, how do you think LeRose and Varady came up with Pospisil and Tolvanen it wasn’t by talking to Tier I coaches. Take a look at SC’s Draft see if there is a familiar name there.

 

 

I never said USHL teams relied solely on Tier 1 coaches. I said they listen to some Tier 1 coaches, and those are coaches they have relationships with as well. Coaches that have sent them good players in the past. I could give you very specific examples, but I do not want to embarrass any organization or betray the confidence of a coach. Every team wants to give the impression they have scouts scouring the country, when in truth their budgets are limited. Too many teams in the USHL go under or dormant to think they spend hundreds of thousands on scouting.

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minor life    2
minor life

 

 

 

 

Muskegon took Dylan st.cry but isn't he going to notre dame in the fall?

 

Not if Cal Petersen decides to not sign in Buffalo.

 

Peterson does NOT have to sign with buffalo and will 100% be an UFA on June 1st 2017 ( this year ).

 

95% certain he notified Buffalo that he is no longer a full time NCAA student which makes him an UFA 30 days later or June 1st ( because of his age and when he was drafted )

 

See Mike Reilly of Wild, same situation 2 years ago

 

The FA date for Petersen is August 1. Example Vesey to Rangers. Not aware of any loophole change that date if he is no longer a full time student.

 

 

An NHL team gets an NCAA-bound player for four years or until that player exhausts his college eligibility. Since Petersen played his Draft+1 year in Waterloo, he's played four full seasons since being drafted. If he formally withdraws from school, his NHL club has 30 days to sign him or he becomes a free agent. It's the same way Mike Reilly, Justin Schultz, and Blake Wheeler became free agents before graduating.

 

Did not know he played draft+1. Clarified then, thank you.

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MuskegonFan    0
MuskegonFan

 

Any impressions on how Muskegon did in this draft?

I followed the draft on their twitter page and looked up the guys in eliteprospects... seems like they got a few good ones.

Also what do you think about them trading their 1st round pick for 3 players?

 

I'm swamped but when I get through the Steel draft first thing I'll do is see what your guy Scott Bradford has to say. Love his informed call of Jack games but it was his LEAGUE wide analysis of ALL the trade deadline moves that moved him way up in my book. He gets paid to do Jack work but this guy has it in his blood, he's genuinely curious paid or not.

 

What I'm saying is Bradford will, if he hasn't already, break down the Jack draft in a professional way. Plus you have Opfermann at Mlive and the two guys at LSJ, who I see have something about the trade. http://localsportsjournal.com/2017/05/lumberjacks-trade-for-veteran-forwards-then-select-more-forwards-with-top-draft-picks/

 

 

A lot at Mlive, too: http://www.mlive.com/lumberjacks/

 

 

Thanks for your inputs... I was just hoping to hear from some guys who have seen these players some more. I like Bradford, he works hard to stay informed - true. I just take the home commentary on players they're acquiring with a grain of salt.

No offense to Bradford but I realize he's also trying to sell the Jacks to the public. :)

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Mr Ricochet    3
Mr Ricochet

Thought I'd take a look at Janesville on Hockey TV to get a look at Steel 1st round, 14th pick, goalie Derek Schaedig. Can't see him in these playoffs cuz he can't get on the ice cuz Storm 2017 3rd round pick 99 Jacob Barczewski has started every playoff game for the Jets and is 5-0, 1.25 GA and a .956 SPG......... http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=273884

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turk181    0
turk181

 

America's Team does it again. Their ability to get all kinds of high profile talent every year is crazy.

Four players will not be returning to the Plymouth-based organization for the second season of their two-year training program – Michigan natives Blade Jenkins and Will MacKinnon, along with goaltenders Ryan Ullan and Keegan Karki. http://mihockeynow.com/2017/05/roster-changes-coming-for-next-years-ntdp-under-18-team/

 

According to elite prospects “Confirmed Transfers”, Blade Jenkins to Saginaw.

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Left Behind    0
Left Behind

 

Any GM or scouting staff who rely solely on what a Tier I coach says about a player aren’t doing their job. A Tier I coach has a responsibility to sell his players and try and move them up for the good of the organization and his job so anything they say has to be taken with a grain of salt. You have to watch the player play and project what they might do at the next level. There are so many opportunities to watch players there is no excuse for not doing so and it is only a matter of where to go to look, and for those of us who can freely go back and forth between the Canadian and US Borders the options are unlimited. A better resource then a Tier I coach are the US College assistants, the CHL scouts, and the NHL scouting staffs, especially with Euros, all of whom have done their due diligence and can help to make the decision where to go or where not to go. Those relationships are built on credibility and friendships. As an example, how do you think LeRose and Varady came up with Pospisil and Tolvanen it wasn’t by talking to Tier I coaches. Take a look at SC’s Draft see if there is a familiar name there.

I never said USHL teams relied solely on Tier 1 coaches. I said they listen to some Tier 1 coaches, and those are coaches they have relationships with as well. Coaches that have sent them good players in the past. I could give you very specific examples, but I do not want to embarrass any organization or betray the confidence of a coach. Every team wants to give the impression they have scouts scouring the country, when in truth their budgets are limited. Too many teams in the USHL go under or dormant to think they spend hundreds of thousands on scouting.

 

 

I understood what you meant, and sure they listen to SOME Tier I coaches. My point was you can’t rely solely on what a Tier I coach says you have to watch the kid, which is pretty easy given the number of games, camps, USAH identification camps etc. You can always rely on Tier I coaches for camp fillers, as a matter of fact most of them try and get their non-drafted 3/4 kids to a USHL or NAHL camp to try and keep the money flowing in to their organization while at the same time supplying camp fillers for the USHL team.

 

USHL teams don’t need to spend “hundreds of thousands” on scouting, most of the scouting is already done for them by NHL, College, CHL, USAH, or league scouting staffs. The WHL Bantam Draft just concluded and is always for players one year younger than the USHL Draft Phase I Draft age which means all the USHL GM has to do is focus on CHL pre-scouted kids. USAH has regional camps where supposedly the best players from each region of the States show up, and of course there are always the various league “Combines”.

 

Of course, there are always the “Advisors” some credible and some not who are on the phone and emailing GMs on almost a daily basis. Some of those “Advisors” even show up at some of these camps trying to fool parents and players about how important they are for their kid to make it to the show. The calls and emails get answered for the reputable Advisors, and for the others the jokes fly with staff when the message is received, of course the brunt of the jokes goes back to the parents and tells them what a great relationship he has with the GM/Coach.

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DetroitRocks    0
DetroitRocks

USHL teams don’t need to spend “hundreds of thousands” on scouting, most of the scouting is already done for them by NHL, College, CHL, USAH, or league scouting staffs.​

 

I have to disagree with much of this. I don't know of any team relying on the NHL for a junior draft. Some NHL teams are now watching underage kids and some are not but I don't think they are passing a whole lot of that on to the USHL. I can assure you the USHL is not getting reports and trading information with CHL teams. A number of people in both leagues are friendly and talk but if you are going to be successful in the CHL or USHL you have to have your own staff and your own opinions.

 

There are such varying degrees of opinions on players that no way would I rely on word of mouth or people from other leagues at least as far as early round draft picks. Later on is a different story and maybe you take a chance. That doesn't mean USHL teams have to spend hundreds of thousands on scouting but they better have a staff out watching as many games as possible and forming their own opinions or they will not be successful.

 

And as for relying on USA Hockey for opinions.....I sure as hell wouldn't. And if you are relying on the league and other people and not getting out and doing it yourself, you will get what you deserve which is probably not much.

Edited by DetroitRocks

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