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St. Clair Shores, MI to FHL

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Kwey, your budget numbers are off quite a bit. USHL staffing requirments alone place budgets in the 2 million range on average. Housing of players at the pro level is sometimes cheaper than billeting at junior. Apartments are usually at least a partial trade, if not a full trade for advertising. We had a trade in BC, and those costs were minimal.


I do not see BC averaging more than 200 for FHL. The neutral site game only brought in 70 people. A radio buy is also out of Grand Rapids. Radio return numbers across the industry have been in decline for more than 5 years. Sirius has taken a big chunk of the market and it becomes less effective every day.


I certainly appreciate the optimism for BC, but having been there, and still visiting the area often, there is no way it works. There are markets that might work in Michigan, but again, if you do not know the market, and do not have someone local involved, its not likely to happen. The why of BC actually happening is because new arena owners have no clue what they are doing.

I'm not sure you read my post as I intended. I did say a few years ago that USHL budgets were in the $1.2 million to $2.0 million range, but those certainly weren't the numbers I was holding to now.


Are you saying my estimates of USHL budgets tending to lag $500,000 to $1 million behind ECHL is off?


Staffing for most USHL teams is not going to be higher than most ECHL teams. The "front office" of most USHL teams is numbered at 6 to 10 people, with a good number closer to the former than the latter. Most are not highly paid and it's why there's typically a fair amount of staff turnover amongst USHL teams. My experience is that most ECHL teams have a handful more front office people than USHL teams. The pay of the coaches will not be greatly different (edge to USHL head coaches for the most part, though), but the scouting will be higher with the USHL, that is true. That said, a USHL scouting budget isn't going to completely offset the higher arena costs that ECHL teams deal with, the workers' compensation insurance, and then there's the health insurance and such that the ECHL teams pay for their players that USHL teams don't, and I'd expect an ECHL team to have to pay more in state unemployment insurance taxes (players are employees, and in most states pro athletes such as hockey players are eligible for unemployment insurance benefits in season--this is why it's important for leagues like the ECHL to have very specifically declared season starts and season ends). There are other things that ECHL teams pay for, such as travel before and after the season for players to come and go back home, or even during the season. There's nothing particular about travel in the USHL that should make it cost more than the ECHL, especially since the ECHL plays a longer season. Then, of course, the players in the ECHL are paid.


MinorLife,I guess I'd be interested in hearing your numbers and learn what the USHL teams are spending so much more money on than ECHL teams that I'm seemingly unaware of, aside from scouting. Again, there are a number of things built into the ECHL model that are going to more than offset that difference by quite a bit.

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Mr Ricochet



. There's a reason very few USHL head coaches move to the ECHL (and it should also be telling why Anthony Noreen moved from Youngstown to the ECHL, although that didn't turn out well). .





Curious why you say Noreen hasn't worked out in the ECHL? I looked him up and last year his Orlando club went 33-30-9 and this year he went 36-26-10 and is up 2-1 in round 1 of the ECHL playoffs........ http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=109206





Because he was fired 11 games into the season this year.



Well that's enough proof for me Noreen hasn't worked out, getting fired. ......His teams were fun to watch in the USHL, that's for sure.

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minor life

Coaches in the USHL get paid a lot more than the average ECHL coach that would be the first one. Staffing requirements under USAH rules and the salaries that come with those positions are a lot higher than ECHL, and greater in number. Scouting budgets are far greater in the USHL than the ECHL likely ten times as big. Arena rents are similar, and many of the other costs are similar. Where the ECHL over takes the USHL budget wise is only in workmans comp payments. Ask a player if they ate better on the road in the ECHL or USHL and you will see how far that ECHL per diem goes. lol

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