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Possible USHL expansion in Kansas City


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#41 herbst20

 

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 02:08 PM

Article says possibly for the start of 2017 season:  http://www.kansascit...le76872002.html



#42 Mr Ricochet

 

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 02:16 PM

Herby, this article is dated May of 2016.   Has anything changed since the article was published?  ...Then this.

 

The plan is for the arena to be funded via a public-private partnership, Hunt said. If approved, the arena would be scheduled for completion in 2018, he added, and it would be the home for the USHL team and other community events. The USHL franchise would play its inaugural 2017 elsewhere, though that location has not yet been determined.

 

 

Not sure why the USHL would have a new franchise come in under these conditions, a temporary home for its first season, unless they see the league losing a franchise next year. 


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#43 herbst20

 

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 02:26 PM

I never gave it much thought when reading it.   The HockeyTV director of marketing tweeted it not more than an hour ago so I took it as new.  Oops!



#44 Mr Ricochet

 

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 02:35 PM

Well we know for sure that Hunt has put down a deposit and secured rights to an expansion franchise.   We also know he's proven as an owner of a hockey team.   .......... Doesn't mean this is, or will, happen but everything looks in order at this point.

 

My question though still stands.   Why is the USHL allowing an expansion team to come into a temporary arena unless they are losing a franchise?  It's not like the league needs a team to get them to 8 or 10 teams.


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#45 DM47

 

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 03:32 PM

I have been wondering what was happening with this. Not finding any news about this. Minor Life did hint that some ushl teams may be folding or moving in the USPHL thread. Don't know if there is anything to that. With the USPHL making there move with the NCDC I will be curious to see if the USHL gets aggressive or plays it safe in new markets.

#46 minor life

 

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 04:21 PM

hint hint


There is a difference between someone who plays hockey, and a Hockey Player. which one are you?

#47 Mr Ricochet

 

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 05:00 PM

I have been wondering what was happening with this. Not finding any news about this. Minor Life did hint that some ushl teams may be folding or moving in the USPHL thread. Don't know if there is anything to that. With the USPHL making there move with the NCDC I will be curious to see if the USHL gets aggressive or plays it safe in new markets.

 

DM, not sure what levels you've followed and supported but speaking for myself (off the top of my head) I have followed and paid to see the AAHL (single A pro) that folded, UHL (AA pro) that folded, IHL2 (AA pro) that folded, ECHL (AA pro).   During that time all of these leagues had teams come and go including the ECHL which is very much alive.

 

Just a fact and the price of doing business at lower levels that teams/franchises come and go.  Experience has taught me to simply follow attendance numbers.  Logically speaking poor drawing franchises are the ones in trouble, but not the only ones.   Arena issues are a big variable as well (Indy Ice).    Two leagues at the same level trying to outspend each other kill franchises and leagues too.

 

I see no reason to think the same of the very top of the junior level in the USA which is the USHL.  Franchises will still come and go even in healthy leagues. 


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#48 Maiden

 

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 05:31 PM

hint hint

Hopefully Youngstown goes the USPHL route. Just my opinion since they are so off the beaten path of the other USHL teams.

 

If I was the leader of the USHL I would try to get Waterloo into the eastern conference since they already play Dubuque and Cedar Rapids more than they play there in conference teams. You can make a case for those 3 teams being in either conference. Also would try to get a foot print in the St Louis (aka Chesterfield/Lindenwood) area. The Quad cities is more a pro league area but having a team there would also be ideal for travel.

 

Finally to Rico's point. The western conference teams lead the league in average attendance. Continue to look west of the Mississippi for areas that will support junior hockey. How much longer does the Steel stay in the Chicagoland area. I understand the league offices are in Chicago but if you cant get more than 1000 a game in a hot hockey market like Chicago (not counting last night's full house for Blackhawks night) maybe it's time to find a new home.



#49 Mr Ricochet

 

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 05:57 PM



I have been wondering what was happening with this. Not finding any news about this. Minor Life did hint that some ushl teams may be folding or moving in the USPHL thread. Don't know if there is anything to that. With the USPHL making there move with the NCDC I will be curious to see if the USHL gets aggressive or plays it safe in new markets.

 

 

Respectfully to all concerned but Minor life is selling this USPHL thingy like a car salesman.  ML has given me plenty of tips over the years and opinions.   Some panned out some didn't.......... I'll believe the USPHL competing with established leagues for top talent in rec arenas when I see it. 


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#50 DM47

 

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 07:27 PM







I have been wondering what was happening with this. Not finding any news about this. Minor Life did hint that some ushl teams may be folding or moving in the USPHL thread. Don't know if there is anything to that. With the USPHL making there move with the NCDC I will be curious to see if the USHL gets aggressive or plays it safe in new markets.

 
 
Respectfully to all concerned but Minor life is selling this USPHL thingy like a car salesman.  ML has given me plenty of tips over the years and opinions.   Some panned out some didn't.......... I'll believe the USPHL competing with established leagues for top talent in rec arenas when I see it. 

Yeah, I don't want to change this thread to that argument again, I was just more saying he sometimes has some insight and hinted a franchise or 2 could have something going on.

I would be excited to see the USHL gets into Kansas City. I honestly think that may be the next spot the NHL ends up expanding too. The number of rinks there have exploded in recent years and there is a group trying to grow interest in NHL. With them wanting to even out the conferences and seemingly no interest from anyone in Seattle I would expect there or Portland and a relocation in the east to Quebec City.

#51 minor life

 

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 08:29 PM

For clarity, I do not believe for one second the USPHL will be an equal to the USHL any time soon if ever at all.  I do believe they will steal some USHL players.  I believe this because Hockey East, Atlantic, and Ivy schools support the USPHL efforts in order to reduce their NCAA scouting budgets.  Some people don't like traveling to remote areas of the country all the time.  I also believe they will directly compete with and be better than the NAHL in short order, 36 months is my guestimate.  I could be wrong, but then again, I actually travel to watch each league and base my opinion on first hand accounts.

 

My issue is with the USA Hockey process and the denial that happened.  There was a deal to be made to keep the USPHL in the family.  The NAHL and USHL ganged up and blocked it from happening because the NAHL is petrified of competition at the Tier II level.  The USHL has a vendetta with the USPHL because the USHL did not trademark the USHL brand until after the USPHL announced their new name after changing from the EJHL.  Those items are easily researchable and verifiable independently.

 

To directly comment on the USHL issue under discussion here, there is one USHL team with no lease for next season.  Easy enough to find out which team.  The same team attendance numbers are bleak to say the least. 

 

One last comment; if the USHL wasn't just a little concerned over the USPHL, Bob Fallon would not calling the USHL "the only sanctioned Tier 1 league" in a recent Tweet.  We all know the USHL is Tier 1, why the effort to mention sanctioned?  Again, I don't believe the USPHL will overtake the USHL.  There is an issue there though.  The players will be the ones who decide. 


Edited by minor life, 22 January 2017 - 09:04 PM.

There is a difference between someone who plays hockey, and a Hockey Player. which one are you?

#52 Maiden

 

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 09:49 PM

In Bob Fallon's defense, the USHL has been using "the only sanctioned Tier 1 league" for quite sometime.

 

I do think ML has a valid point on eastern recruiting budgets. I just don't agree its Hockey East. Just an opinion.

 

The USHL will lose some players from the east to the new league; that's inevitable.

I bet even without USA Hockey's blessing the league will become a fixture down the road.



#53 BackCheck

 

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 10:34 PM

Back on the KC expansion. The Overland Park residents are pretty much against them building an arena in the area and more so about using tax money to do it. There is no way at this point it happens in 2017 unless someone pumps in a lot of personal funds and they clear some red tape. For that matter, what happened to the Indiana Ice and the Lyceum Pavilion? Remember the USHL approved them to return to the league there once it was built? Looks like it dropped off the radar after they couldn't find people to back them. I also heard there were some shady things going on with the people involved but the articles I read didn't give a lot of specifics. 

 

In any case, just getting the league to let you in isn't everything. And hey, there is still a sliver of a chance Racine, WI will get an arena for d-league basketball and have some space for a hockey team. 



#54 Mr Ricochet

 

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 06:43 PM



Back on the KC expansion. The Overland Park residents are pretty much against them building an arena in the area and more so about using tax money to do it. There is no way at this point it happens in 2017 unless someone pumps in a lot of personal funds and they clear some red tape. For that matter, what happened to the Indiana Ice and the Lyceum Pavilion? Remember the USHL approved them to return to the league there once it was built? Looks like it dropped off the radar after they couldn't find people to back them. I also heard there were some shady things going on with the people involved but the articles I read didn't give a lot of specifics. 

 

In any case, just getting the league to let you in isn't everything. And hey, there is still a sliver of a chance Racine, WI will get an arena for d-league basketball and have some space for a hockey team. 

 

The arena you speak of, was that the one about an our east of Indy?   Then the owner was looking to do something big with a multi-purpose arena in a blighted area in Indy to involve minorities in some activities.   Think ownership wanted some public funding to help and I haven't heard anything since.  That was 2-3 years ago.


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#55 Maiden

 

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 07:47 PM

With the ECHL Indy Fuel now in town will we ever see the Indiana Ice play another game in that area?

 

Des Moines has done a great job supporting both the AHL Wild (average attendance nearly 6000) and USHL Buccaneers (2500).

But there is a huge drop off in talent from the AHL to the ECHL.



#56 DM47

 

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 09:11 PM

Here is a link from August stating the council had approved a tax plan for the development to include the arena.

 

http://www.kansascit...le95930982.html

 

Saw an article saying a restaurant was going to be going in at the BluHawk Development.  There webpage does not show much, only one picture showed early dirt work and one one wall up.

 

http://www.bluhawkkc.com/why-bluhawk/



#57 Maiden

 

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 09:23 PM

Lots of discussion in past days that the new Las Vegas Golden Knights are looking at the Chicago Wolves as there AHL affiliate.

If that happens then the St Louis Blues will need to find a new AHL home. Rumors abound that the Blues ownership is in discussion with the Hunt family about starting an AHL team in downtown Kansas City. Kansas City already has an ECHL team so could be some fireworks in the near future.



#58 iowaninja

 

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 08:10 AM

Don't the Hunts own the ECHL team? You'd probably see the Mavericks go up a level if that's the case

#59 BackCheck

 

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 11:41 AM

 



Back on the KC expansion. The Overland Park residents are pretty much against them building an arena in the area and more so about using tax money to do it. There is no way at this point it happens in 2017 unless someone pumps in a lot of personal funds and they clear some red tape. For that matter, what happened to the Indiana Ice and the Lyceum Pavilion? Remember the USHL approved them to return to the league there once it was built? Looks like it dropped off the radar after they couldn't find people to back them. I also heard there were some shady things going on with the people involved but the articles I read didn't give a lot of specifics. 

 

In any case, just getting the league to let you in isn't everything. And hey, there is still a sliver of a chance Racine, WI will get an arena for d-league basketball and have some space for a hockey team. 

 

The arena you speak of, was that the one about an our east of Indy?   Then the owner was looking to do something big with a multi-purpose arena in a blighted area in Indy to involve minorities in some activities.   Think ownership wanted some public funding to help and I haven't heard anything since.  That was 2-3 years ago.

 

 

I think that's the one, although I'm re-doing the research and think I may have confused a couple different, or at least conflicting, reports. But in any case, all of them seemed to state things were stalled due to a lack of funding.

 

However, the Ice's website is now "under construction" where as at least a month ago it was the old website http://www.indianaice.com/



#60 Mr Ricochet

 

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 06:28 PM

 

 


 

 

 

I think that's the one, although I'm re-doing the research and think I may have confused a couple different, or at least conflicting, reports. But in any case, all of them seemed to state things were stalled due to a lack of funding.

 

However, the Ice's website is now "under construction" where as at least a month ago it was the old website http://www.indianaice.com/

 

 

 

Nice catch, 47........... Forget the name of the Indy owner, but that was one hell of an organization.   Developed a lot of big leaguers.   Love to see that group back in the league. 

 

Lotta hockey in the state.   Indy with and ECHL entry, Fort Wayne has the ECHL too and Evansville is A pro SPHL. 


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