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Possible USHL expansion in Kansas City

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atrain

Kwey 24 I am assuming that you are talking about the area out around the race track and casino if you are talking western KCK. That is where I was thinking would of been great 15 -16 years ago, but taxes and property value have both skyrocketed in that area. While Overland Park is a little older area that they are kind of trying to rejuvenate and freshen up a bit. They are far enough away from Independence Mo that they will both be alright probably. I just think the new club will have a much better location than the Mavericks, a lot of population and money in that area as well as being more centrally located compared to independence.

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kwey24

Atrain, you are probably right. Question for you, do a lot of Kansas hockey fans make the trip over Independence to watch the Mavericks? If so, what percentage of fans do you reckon the Mavericks will lose if they add an arena in Olathe, Overland Park, Lenexa, or someplace like that?

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atrain

I have since moved from Kansas City, but was in Kansas City the first two seasons they opened the arena in Independence and they sold out or were near a sellout every game. Independence is just so far out on the edges of town out east, that I think some fans from KCK or downtown Kansas City Mo may elect to go to Overland Park, plus it is closer to the bar area or the power and light district which is another bar area down by the quest or sprint center (not sure what the arena is named any longer). I think both teams can definitely survive tickets just may become easier to get in Independence. I would guess that they might lose 15-20% of there fan base, just a real rough guess. Omaha tried a pro affiliate team along with the lancers, and the lancers are still operating KC's population is at least double Omaha's therefore if marketed right both teams I believe can be profitable. Kansas City also use to have an AHL team I believe it was called the Kansas City Blades that folded I believe around 2000 if I remember right, wouldn't surprise me if echl team didn't renew contract just because they are the NY Islanders farm team, tough for call ups, it makes more sense to me for St. Louis or Dallas to have there farm team closer, not sure where they are currently.

Edited by atrain

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TheShow

 

KC will be important to have when Fargo folds...

Bu-bu-but look at Fargo's attendance!!

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Yeti

What's going on with Fargo that they could fold? I've been out of the loop this past season.

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Mr Ricochet

What's going on with Fargo that they could fold? I've been out of the loop this past season.

 

 

I'll let Kwey speak for himself, but IIRC Kwey has been calling this for awhile now. More speculation than rumor, again IIRC. Never really heard it from other than Kwey tough.

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TheShow

 

What's going on with Fargo that they could fold? I've been out of the loop this past season.

 

 

I'll let Kwey speak for himself, but IIRC Kwey has been calling this for awhile now. More speculation than rumor, again IIRC. Never really heard it from other than Kwey tough.

 

 

Knowing Ace, it probably is speculation, but it's likely not too far off. Attendance has been seriously awful, outside of the charity centric games. It's going to take a while to repair the Pre-Eades image this team had to get bodies back in the building. Constantly raising prices in the midst of that toxic environment was an awful idea. But hey, what do I know...

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Iowa Blue's fan

 

 

What's going on with Fargo that they could fold? I've been out of the loop this past season.

 

 

I'll let Kwey speak for himself, but IIRC Kwey has been calling this for awhile now. More speculation than rumor, again IIRC. Never really heard it from other than Kwey tough.

Knowing Ace, it probably is speculation, but it's likely not too far off. Attendance has been seriously awful, outside of the charity centric games. It's going to take a while to repair the Pre-Eades image this team had to get bodies back in the building. Constantly raising prices in the midst of that toxic environment was an awful idea. But hey, what do I know...

y

 

Waterloo has been increasing prices. I think it is a mistake. Many hockey families are lower income working families and I think they are pricing younger families out. Better to charge lower ticker prices and make more in concessions . But hey, what do I know...

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TheShow

 

 

 

What's going on with Fargo that they could fold? I've been out of the loop this past season.

 

I'll let Kwey speak for himself, but IIRC Kwey has been calling this for awhile now. More speculation than rumor, again IIRC. Never really heard it from other than Kwey tough.

Knowing Ace, it probably is speculation, but it's likely not too far off. Attendance has been seriously awful, outside of the charity centric games. It's going to take a while to repair the Pre-Eades image this team had to get bodies back in the building. Constantly raising prices in the midst of that toxic environment was an awful idea. But hey, what do I know...

y

 

Waterloo has been increasing prices. I think it is a mistake. Many hockey families are lower income working families and I think they are pricing younger families out. Better to charge lower ticker prices and make more in concessions . But hey, what do I know...

 

 

It's another one of the mysteries about the league for me. Does this league want to be a complete amateur show or does it want to replicate a "professional" experience, like other major junior leagues and other minor league sports teams?

 

In Fargo, all the gameday employees are volunteers, at least they were when I last bought concessions a couple years ago. The people serving food, volunteers. The people serving as "ushers"(I use this term loosely because in Fargo they basically do nothing. Do not help people to their seats, do not hold people from returning to their seats during play...but they wear yellow jackets, so it's official...), volunteers. The gameday experience(production, promotions) as a whole is seriously amateur. So why are they expecting people to pay professional level prices? If I wanted to be served a hot dog by an 8 year old from a snack bar and not care about being able to watch the action in front of me because of constant foot traffic, I'll go to a local high school game for a fraction of the price. Heck, the kids playing the sport are roughly the same age. $22 to get a decent seat? You can literally get a ticket to a Minnesota Wild Game for that price. These $22 seats aren't even "premium", it's a third of the arena! Having 1000(announced as 3000+ of course) people show up to a glorified high school production, while charging professional level prices should come as no surprise.

 

What does this league want to be?

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minor life

I think the league, like every other (example Flint) has great owners and those that some people wish would go away. The problem is not easily fixed though. Once the league sells a franchise, and the franchise is operating under existing guidelines by providing what is required, the leagues hands are tied without quality control standards that come with every franchise. They also dont want to lose Fargo now simply for scheduling reasons. But I sure wouldnt pay to go to a game there. If you dont take pride in your product, how can you ask anyone else to take pride in supporting your product? Kind of like Chrysler used to be; yes they made cars, and yes they sold for similiar prices as others, but you only bought one when you were left with no other options. Sorry Chrysler lovers.

Edited by minor life

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kwey24

I don't recall making the "Fargo folding" joke before, but that doesn't mean I haven't. Usually, I'm only talking about the inevitability, someday, of Muskegon and Youngstown...

 

I haven't heard anything concrete that Fargo is going to fold, all I've heard and read is a lot of stories about problems with the arena (this has been for years) and that attendance is a lot like the old Oklahoma City Blazers (inflated). You read and hear things like that year after year, and you start to worry and wonder. I don't think I know anything more about the Fargo situation than TheShow, but I think I've heard and read a lot of the same things.

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Mr Ricochet

Herby, this article is dated May of 2016. Has anything changed since the article was published? ...Then this.

 

 

 

The plan is for the arena to be funded via a public-private partnership, Hunt said. If approved, the arena would be scheduled for completion in 2018, he added, and it would be the home for the USHL team and other community events. The USHL franchise would play its inaugural 2017 elsewhere, though that location has not yet been determined.

 

 

Not sure why the USHL would have a new franchise come in under these conditions, a temporary home for its first season, unless they see the league losing a franchise next year.

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herbst20

I never gave it much thought when reading it. The HockeyTV director of marketing tweeted it not more than an hour ago so I took it as new. Oops!

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Mr Ricochet

Well we know for sure that Hunt has put down a deposit and secured rights to an expansion franchise. We also know he's proven as an owner of a hockey team. .......... Doesn't mean this is, or will, happen but everything looks in order at this point.

 

My question though still stands. Why is the USHL allowing an expansion team to come into a temporary arena unless they are losing a franchise? It's not like the league needs a team to get them to 8 or 10 teams.

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DM47

I have been wondering what was happening with this. Not finding any news about this. Minor Life did hint that some ushl teams may be folding or moving in the USPHL thread. Don't know if there is anything to that. With the USPHL making there move with the NCDC I will be curious to see if the USHL gets aggressive or plays it safe in new markets.

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minor life

hint hint

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Mr Ricochet

I have been wondering what was happening with this. Not finding any news about this. Minor Life did hint that some ushl teams may be folding or moving in the USPHL thread. Don't know if there is anything to that. With the USPHL making there move with the NCDC I will be curious to see if the USHL gets aggressive or plays it safe in new markets.

 

DM, not sure what levels you've followed and supported but speaking for myself (off the top of my head) I have followed and paid to see the AAHL (single A pro) that folded, UHL (AA pro) that folded, IHL2 (AA pro) that folded, ECHL (AA pro). During that time all of these leagues had teams come and go including the ECHL which is very much alive.

 

Just a fact and the price of doing business at lower levels that teams/franchises come and go. Experience has taught me to simply follow attendance numbers. Logically speaking poor drawing franchises are the ones in trouble, but not the only ones. Arena issues are a big variable as well (Indy Ice). Two leagues at the same level trying to outspend each other kill franchises and leagues too.

 

I see no reason to think the same of the very top of the junior level in the USA which is the USHL. Franchises will still come and go even in healthy leagues.

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Maiden

hint hint

Hopefully Youngstown goes the USPHL route. Just my opinion since they are so off the beaten path of the other USHL teams.

 

If I was the leader of the USHL I would try to get Waterloo into the eastern conference since they already play Dubuque and Cedar Rapids more than they play there in conference teams. You can make a case for those 3 teams being in either conference. Also would try to get a foot print in the St Louis (aka Chesterfield/Lindenwood) area. The Quad cities is more a pro league area but having a team there would also be ideal for travel.

 

Finally to Rico's point. The western conference teams lead the league in average attendance. Continue to look west of the Mississippi for areas that will support junior hockey. How much longer does the Steel stay in the Chicagoland area. I understand the league offices are in Chicago but if you cant get more than 1000 a game in a hot hockey market like Chicago (not counting last night's full house for Blackhawks night) maybe it's time to find a new home.

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Mr Ricochet

I have been wondering what was happening with this. Not finding any news about this. Minor Life did hint that some ushl teams may be folding or moving in the USPHL thread. Don't know if there is anything to that. With the USPHL making there move with the NCDC I will be curious to see if the USHL gets aggressive or plays it safe in new markets.

 

 

Respectfully to all concerned but Minor life is selling this USPHL thingy like a car salesman. ML has given me plenty of tips over the years and opinions. Some panned out some didn't.......... I'll believe the USPHL competing with established leagues for top talent in rec arenas when I see it.

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DM47

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have been wondering what was happening with this. Not finding any news about this. Minor Life did hint that some ushl teams may be folding or moving in the USPHL thread. Don't know if there is anything to that. With the USPHL making there move with the NCDC I will be curious to see if the USHL gets aggressive or plays it safe in new markets.

 

Respectfully to all concerned but Minor life is selling this USPHL thingy like a car salesman. ML has given me plenty of tips over the years and opinions. Some panned out some didn't.......... I'll believe the USPHL competing with established leagues for top talent in rec arenas when I see it.

Yeah, I don't want to change this thread to that argument again, I was just more saying he sometimes has some insight and hinted a franchise or 2 could have something going on.

 

I would be excited to see the USHL gets into Kansas City. I honestly think that may be the next spot the NHL ends up expanding too. The number of rinks there have exploded in recent years and there is a group trying to grow interest in NHL. With them wanting to even out the conferences and seemingly no interest from anyone in Seattle I would expect there or Portland and a relocation in the east to Quebec City.

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