[-skee-]

Thunderbolt, on 30 July 2010 - 02:25 PM, said:

-skee-, on 30 July 2010 - 11:31 AM, said:

Some kids still have school the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, so they will be missing school if they have to travel for a game that day.

How is that different than having a road game on a Friday?

True, I actually just realized that. It's still a week night game with kids potentially missing school (only potentially because I know some schools are closed that day).

[-skee-]

gbpuckfan, on 30 July 2010 - 01:50 PM, said:

-skee-, on 30 July 2010 - 11:31 AM, said:

Some kids still have school the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, so they will be missing school if they have to travel for a game that day. The number probably doesn't count the Sunday games where someone like Fargo plays in Muskegon at 5:15 pm and won't get back until Monday morning some time, they don't fly, do they?

The USHL teams do not fly.

There are occaisions that the Team USA squads fly, although this isn't as advantageous as it was pre 9/11...

===

Besides Evansville, I think those other IHL cities might be looked at. A lot may depend on how well Muskegon embraces the USHL on if the league is willing to try it again.

I think the league would prefer to find another team in the Mich/Indiana/Ohio region to help with travel costs out there.

Wausau, WI, isn't happening soon, unfortunately.

Thanks. I didn't think they flew but I might've missed something and didn't just want to assume.

By "those other IHL cities", you mean the former IHL cities of Flint and Port Huron (the ones that were just previously mentioned), right? If the NAHL succeeds in those two cities, I could see getting a USHL team instead, but if the two fail, I don't see the USHL coming in. If they did, they'd be dead on arrival.

[Fangers]

-skee-, on 30 July 2010 - 12:04 AM, said:

The Lumberjacks have 13 home games before the end of the New Year. 5 of which are on football days and one on a Wednesday night. Not a good sign...

Not being a smartass by asking this question, jusr wondering - how would these match up vs. the IHL team schedule in previous years? Did they avoid conflicts with Friday night football or weeknight games?

[gbpuckfan]

-skee-, on 30 July 2010 - 12:46 PM, said:

gbpuckfan, on 30 July 2010 - 01:50 PM, said:

-skee-, on 30 July 2010 - 11:31 AM, said:

Some kids still have school the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, so they will be missing school if they have to travel for a game that day. The number probably doesn't count the Sunday games where someone like Fargo plays in Muskegon at 5:15 pm and won't get back until Monday morning some time, they don't fly, do they?

The USHL teams do not fly.

There are occaisions that the Team USA squads fly, although this isn't as advantageous as it was pre 9/11...

===

Besides Evansville, I think those other IHL cities might be looked at. A lot may depend on how well Muskegon embraces the USHL on if the league is willing to try it again.

I think the league would prefer to find another team in the Mich/Indiana/Ohio region to help with travel costs out there.

Wausau, WI, isn't happening soon, unfortunately.

Thanks. I didn't think they flew but I might've missed something and didn't just want to assume.

By "those other IHL cities", you mean the former IHL cities of Flint and Port Huron (the ones that were just previously mentioned), right? If the NAHL succeeds in those two cities, I could see getting a USHL team instead, but if the two fail, I don't see the USHL coming in. If they did, they'd be dead on arrival.

Well, I was more hoping for Bloomington and Quad Cities, seeing as they fit into the footprint quite nicely.

The USHL pitched Bloomington when its new building opened, but the city/arena opted for the UHL/IHL. Personally, I think it was a mistake.

Quad Cities would be a natural fit with everyone else we've got.

THAT SAID... the USHL following pro teams can be a very tough sell. We'll see how it works in Muskegon; I'm optimistic. It could be especially bad in QC, where they could go from the AHL to the USHL in a short span.

I do NOT want to see hockey fail. I do not want to see the IHL/CHL fail. Still, it would be easier on the USHL if those IHL-style cities went dark a year and then the USHL would come in.

I understand how the USHL business model would be more attractive these days. For the fans of minor pro hockey, I hope the IHL/CHL marriage works. If not, there is another suitor...

[Mr Ricochet]

I think QC is in for a big roll in the CHL (AA pro). They have new ownership, which also owns an ECHL team (maybe 2 I can't remember), and has repudiated the IHL2 publicly and are all in the CHL. They are now in a semi solid unionized CHL and IMO the fans will take to it nicely, and ownership should be solid.

There is speculation that this ownership is a bridge to a CHL-ECHL merge down the road and they are laying the ground work through QC. I just don't see QC in the USHL's future.

Bloomy, who knows. They just keep dropping in attendance every year since they opened shop 5 years ago. But, they too joined the CHL and we'll see how they do in something other than the UHL/IHL2.

[Mr Ricochet]

THonline/Jim Leitner Fighting Saints to debut Oct. 1

Quote

"I really like the way the schedule is set up, and I think it's great for the fans," Saints head coach and general manager Jim Montgomery said. "They get to see every team in the league at least once, and they get to see our biggest rivals three or four times.

OSC Omaha Lancers Release 2010-2011 Regular Season Schedule

[boxcar22]

I didn't mean to start a rumors "whoses jumping next", but the USHL has dicussed in the past, that they are looking to be at least 18 teams and probably 21 so they can have 3 divisions of 7. I would think if they can get one or two more imports a team, they could look at 24 teams- two conferances of 12 and 2 divisions of 6 teams. Guessing whose jumping from the IHL/CHL or others is fun- but probably a little early. Damn- now I realized I did it.

[Fangers]

Fangers, on 30 July 2010 - 02:00 PM, said:

-skee-, on 30 July 2010 - 12:04 AM, said:

The Lumberjacks have 13 home games before the end of the New Year. 5 of which are on football days and one on a Wednesday night. Not a good sign...

Not being a smartass by asking this question, jusr wondering - how would these match up vs. the IHL team schedule in previous years? Did they avoid conflicts with Friday night football or weeknight games?

Found my own answer:

Season | Home | Friday | Weeknights
2009-10 | 16 | 5 | 1
2008-09 | 15 | 5 | 2
2007-08 | 13 | 6 | 2
2006-07 | 17 | 6 | 3
2005-06 | 15 | 5 | 2
2004-05 | 17 | 5 | 5

found that info here

Now my question is - as it appears that the pro team had as many, and most times more, of these Friday Football/Weeknight games as will the USHL team this season, how did it impact the pro team attendence? Again, not being a smartass, just wondering if having games on those nights is legitimate issue or not...

This post has been edited by Fangers: 31 July 2010 - 07:55 AM

[Fangers]

boxcar22, on 31 July 2010 - 07:41 AM, said:

I didn't mean to start a rumors "whoses jumping next", but the USHL has dicussed in the past, that they are looking to be at least 18 teams and probably 21 so they can have 3 divisions of 7. I would think if they can get one or two more imports a team, they could look at 24 teams- two conferances of 12 and 2 divisions of 6 teams. Guessing whose jumping from the IHL/CHL or others is fun- but probably a little early. Damn- now I realized I did it.

Given that they didn't like the implications of three divisions on the playoffs now, I'd be surprised if you see them go to 21 teams/3 divisions. I would think that 20 teams/4 divisions more probable...but just a guess on my part...

[Mr Ricochet]

I guess the next topic to hash over as a fan concerning expansion is the dilution of talent. I would much rather follow a league that has a stinky playoff format than one that has too many teams and dilutes the talent as a result.

As concerning any league, I hope for responsible expansion. Unrealistic expansion has killed many a league or watered it down. I'm not saying expansion will do that to the USHL, or what number they should stop at, only that responsible expansion should be a #1 priority.

[Mr Ricochet]

Omaha World Herald/Steve Biedeck Lancers placed in eight-team Western Conference

Quote

A split into divisions was made to help teams cut travel costs. The Lancers will play eight games against Fargo, Lincoln, Sioux City, Sioux Falls and Tri-City — four at home, four on the road — and just two against the other 10 teams in the league.

That means 40 of Omaha's 60 games will be against some of the franchises with which the Lancers have had some memorable matchups during the past 2½ decades. Though they're in the same conference, there will only be two games against Des Moines and Dubuque because of the way the scheduling process evolved.

[Thunderbolt]

Having put the complete schedule into a matrix, this really was about balancing the playoffs. The matrix is exactly what it would have looked like in the 3-division alignment, as evidenced by "Western" Des Moines and Dubuque playing what is actually a central division schedule. The only issue was how to make the geographical cut. DSM and DBQ to the west makes sense since they still get the same number of regular season against Waterloo and Cedar Rapids.

Had they kept three divisions, you had the potential for a Fargo-Youngstown first round, and no one wants that. I think we'll see the league retain two divisions until 20 teams are reached, at which point a 4x5 alignment can be developed (though the west will still be problematic, since who of TC-Lin-Oma-SC-SF-Far do you kick over to the next adjacent division?)...

[Mr Ricochet]

Thunderbolt, on 01 August 2010 - 11:40 AM, said:

Having put the complete schedule into a matrix, this really was about balancing the playoffs. The matrix is exactly what it would have looked like in the 3-division alignment,

Ok, but how would you decide in a 3 division alignment who would play who in the playoffs? That's easy in a two conference set up, but how would it be done in a 3 division format?

[Thunderbolt]

Mr Ricochet, on 01 August 2010 - 10:43 AM, said:

Thunderbolt, on 01 August 2010 - 11:40 AM, said:

Having put the complete schedule into a matrix, this really was about balancing the playoffs. The matrix is exactly what it would have looked like in the 3-division alignment,

Ok, but how would you decide in a 3 division alignment who would play who in the playoffs? That's easy in a two conference set up, but how would it be done in a 3 division format?

The idea floated was to run it like an NHL conference championship... Division winners get 1-3 seeds, remaining top records get 4-8. But it had a lot of potential for extensive playoff travel. At the end of the day, they're getting the best of both worlds. Regular season travel & geographical rivalry benefits of the 3-division matrix, and the simplicity and postseason travel benefits of a 2-conference alignment.

[hydrogyrum]

Fangers, on 31 July 2010 - 08:51 AM, said:

Fangers, on 30 July 2010 - 02:00 PM, said:

-skee-, on 30 July 2010 - 12:04 AM, said:

The Lumberjacks have 13 home games before the end of the New Year. 5 of which are on football days and one on a Wednesday night. Not a good sign...

Not being a smartass by asking this question, jusr wondering - how would these match up vs. the IHL team schedule in previous years? Did they avoid conflicts with Friday night football or weeknight games?

Found my own answer:

Season | Home | Friday | Weeknights
2009-10 | 16 | 5 | 1
2008-09 | 15 | 5 | 2
2007-08 | 13 | 6 | 2
2006-07 | 17 | 6 | 3
2005-06 | 15 | 5 | 2
2004-05 | 17 | 5 | 5

found that info here

Now my question is - as it appears that the pro team had as many, and most times more, of these Friday Football/Weeknight games as will the USHL team this season, how did it impact the pro team attendence? Again, not being a smartass, just wondering if having games on those nights is legitimate issue or not...

I do not know the actual attendance figures, but speaking as a fan at Lumberjacks games, I can say that football definitely impacts attendance. Probably a reason why Muskegon had to abandon minor league pro hockey. The Muskegon area has quite a few excellent high school football programs, and a number of them go deep in the state playoffs, so during high school football season the sports fans are at those games instead of at hockey.

I'm praying for a cold wet fall and high fears of the cold virus; maybe then folks will see sense and sit inside on those Friday nights! I love football, but I love hockey even more.

[JacksJacksJacks]

I wouldn't worry about it too bad yet. Usually the people in the Muskegon area will go to the season opener and then forget about the team until about Christmas. Last year the Jacks only had one home game during the traditional holiday break for students, and maybe with kids probably headed to the less-urban school distracts (which around here aren't typically that great consistently at football - exception Catholic Central), you might see a lot of kids/girls going to the Friday night games during football season.

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it unless no one shows up from late December-March. I think a lot of the people around here are just apprehensive because it's not professional anymore.

[Mr Ricochet]

Ice Releases Schedule

Phantoms Release Schedule

[geezette]

I ddn't study all the schedules, but the Ice don't play every Saturday night. With an even number of teams, you would wonder why your team would pass up the most lucrative night of the week. I really dislike weeknight games for the sake of the kids in high school. If they can't get all the games in on weekends, then reduce the number of games in the schedule!

[kwey24]

I don't really know how much overlap there is in fan following of high school football, but I do know that college football can make an impact, especially depending on the team. I mean, does a casual sports fan choose freezing and watching high school football or do they go to the local all-purpose arena? In my mind, you have to be a pretty die-hard high school athletics fan to go if you don't 1) have a son playing, 2) have a child at the school, or 3) still live near where you went to high school yourself. (I wanted to use a, b, and c, but b with a parenthesis became an emoticon.) I know this is different in Texas and many areas down south, but the physical sacrifice of going to watch a football game in the fall there is a lot less than in USHL country.

As for college football making an impact, Cedar Rapids' attendance during the early part of last season while the Iowa Hawkeyes were having a near-miracle season was quite poor. After the Hawkeyes' season ended, the RoughRiders attendance shot up quite a bit and was back to numbers that started to approach "the good ol' days" during the first four or fives years of the RoughRiders' existence (the novelty days). That's back when the Riders actually sold all their suites (which is a great place to catch a game from). The Hawkeyes are ranked very high entering this season, too, and all home games are already sold out. So, I suspect the Riders' may be in for a tough start to the year attendance wise. Iowa basketball, on the other hand, had no impact on the RoughRiders last year (because Iowa was terrible).

It'll be interesting to see how things go in Lincoln this year, what with the Stars having a truly bad season for the first time in team history last year and the Cornhuskers appearing to be back on the upswing. I was at a couple Lincoln games at the end of last season, and they may not have been sellouts. There were empty seats, for sure, but I can't say for sure if they weren't purchased.

If you have a strong NCAA D1 football team near you, it hurts from the casual fan standpoint. Now, if you're an Indiana Hoosiers fan, maybe you want to go to the Ice game to drown your sorrows...

All you can really hope to do as a USHL team is to have the league do the best it can in scheduling around any major competition you have. It's a tough thing for the league. It's impossible to make everyone happy all the time.

This post has been edited by kwey24: 14 August 2010 - 03:01 PM

[Mr Ricochet]

Speaking for Muskegon, as has been noted, HS football will hurt attendance. Some solid programs and long time following fans go to those games, especially the playoffs.

I do believe I remember reading the Jacks were able to avoid too many conflicts though, so it may end up not hurting too much.