[Yeti]

The worst kept secret is now official.

http://www.mlive.com...acks_hocke.html

Quote

Muskegon, along with the addition of Dubuque, Iowa, gives the league 16 teams for the 2010-11 season.

“We feel privileged to come to a place like this,” said Skip Prince, commissioner of the USHL.

You'll have to scroll down and read all of the comments that have been made. Very interesting.

This post has been edited by Yeti: 11 February 2010 - 01:48 PM

[Mr Ricochet]

USHL fans you have to understand those fans have had 50 years of continuous pro hockey and are the WINNINGEST pro city in the US. They have more cups than any US city. They are in shock!!!

Many have read time and again jr's is HS hockey. There are ignorant fans everywhere, but Musky fans are not stupid. Ignorant and stupid are two different things. Much like trying to explain to someone who has in their heads AA no instigator hockey is hack hockey.

You guys know better than I that a jr team following a pro team is always a tough sell. It will be especially so in a deep rooted multiple cup winning city like Muskegon.

I am cautiously optimistic. I've been to their arena numerous times and find most fans to be knowledgeable. That is the reason for being optimistic that most will come to find the USHL good hockey.

I'm hoping they have an older club that is physical. That would go a long way to endearing fans to the team and league. Once they see the speed and physical play most will like it. But the first team will be crucial!!

[fattyrc]

Mr Ricochet is exactly right. We here in Muskegon have a long tradition of top notch AA pro Teams. It is not that we are knocking the USHL but you have to understand that we don't want to lose our team. Pro hockey is what many of us want because it's what many of us grew up with. 50 years is a long time to have to start over

[Old Jacks]

The majority of USHL players will never advance beyond AA level hockey. We already have that. So what's the big draw for the fans. I am not a dolt. I've been to high school, junior, college, AA, AAA, NHL & WHA games. I know a thing or two about hockey and I know that the players in the USHL are not as experienced and skilled as IHL players. I know that if I want to watch amatuers display their entheusiam I'd much rather see a Grand Valley game than the USHL. Don't try to make the USHL into something bigger than it is.

[JacksJacksJacks]

"Time heals all wounds"....

even when the "wounds" are a "professional" team in a "solid" "league".

[Gamer]

I for one have been following Muskegon hockey since the Mohawks, I've enjoyed watching guys like Jock Callander, Mark Recchi, Kevin Stevens and many more. The Lumberjack team this year is a very exciting and entertaining team!!! With that said, I will support the current team for the remainder of the season and hope to end the year with the cup!! But I also will say that even though I have never been to a USHL game I am looking forward to and WILL support the team in Muskegon next year, when can I get my season tickets???

[gbpuckfan]

FWIW, the USHL is not confirming this yet. It will happen, but I'm told that quote by Prince at the end of the Muskegon Chronicle story is an old one and shouldn't be taken as confirmation by the league of the move.

Seems still some dotting of Is and crossing of Ts to be done...

[Primis]

Personally, with the move to the USHL I think I'm going to adopt Muskegon as my USHL team of choice and maybe even try to get up and see a game or two (even though it'd be more practical for me to watch them when they play in Ann Arbor).

I've been curious about the USHL for a while and this seems like a good time, with a normal franchise now in Michigan (I don't count the NTDP) to get more involved.

[Mr Ricochet]

Gamer, on 10 February 2010 - 06:15 AM, said:

I for one have been following Muskegon hockey since the Mohawks, I've enjoyed watching guys like Jock Callander, Mark Recchi, Kevin Stevens and many more. The Lumberjack team this year is a very exciting and entertaining team!!! With that said, I will support the current team for the remainder of the season and hope to end the year with the cup!! But I also will say that even though I have never been to a USHL game I am looking forward to and WILL support the team in Muskegon next year, when can I get my season tickets???

Nice to hear a Musky fan willing to give the league a chance Gamer. I hope you and your family find the hockey entertaining.

Make no mistake it is not the be all end all of hockey. The league can be difficult to follow sometimes as some cities won't run a game story if their college team is playing that weekend. Most of the franchises are in big college towns. The Steel get ZERO press in Chicago and they keep a tight lid on info, so they fly waaaaay under the radar, the way they like it. Also there are no league wide message boards as it seems USHL fans don't really follow other clubs,just pretty much their own on team message boards. With the exception of the very few who post at FYC.

But for myself and I've seen quite a bit of hockey being in my mid-forties, I have never seen the combination of energy, speed, grit, physical play and talent quite like Tier 1 (USHL) or Major Junior (OHL). Maybe college but nowhere in the pros on a consistent basis. I would recommend not putting too much stock in who will go to the NHL, but instead enjoy what you see that day. IMO that is a bigger draw to this level than where they will be in 5 years. Of course you sell that future NHLers are playing in the league, just like affiliated minor pro does.

The refs can be horrible just like in the IHL. In fact a few do both leagues. Bruggman and Mayer quickly come to mind. Unfortunately IMO most teams' fans love the damn cowbells, and will ring them when they see a line change.When fans visit Walker they will be totting those damn bells. The biggest difference a Musky fan will notice is the speed and physical play. Lotta hittin!!


As I said good to hear you will give the USHL a try Gamer. That's all anyone can ask and then let the hockey speak for itself. If you have any questions the guys who post here are absolutely tuned into the league ,its players, rules, history or any other questions you may have. So just ask and I'm positive any questions you have will be answered.

[WahooLancer]

I have to echo what Mr. R says about the USHL. The effort and intensity these kids put on the ice every night is very fun to watch. There is something about amature level sports where guys play becuase they love playing the game (as compared to getting paid to play).

In the past 10 years, Omaha has had pro hockey (Omaha Knights - AHL farm team of the Calgary Flames), Division I college hockey (Univeristy of Nebraska Omaha - CCHA), and USHL hockey (Omaha Lancers). Omaha goes way back with hockey history. The old Omaha Knights (1940's & 50's) where the top affliate of the Detroit Red Wings. Guys like Gordie Howe and Terry Sawchuck started their professional hockey careers in Omaha. Pro hockey (and all hockey left Omaha in the mid 1970's). The USHL Omaha Lancers started back up in 1985-1986. From 1990 to 1997 the Lancers sold out like 273 stright games (5906 seating capacity). Based on the Lancers success, UNO started playing college hockey in 1996-1997. They had a long sellout string, and can draw big crowds (over 13,000 last weekend). In about 2002, Calgary moved there AHL affliate to Omaha. For about 3 years, Omaha had a USHL team, a NCAA team, and an AHL team. Having 3 separate teams really divided hockey fans in Omaha, and eventually, the Knights moved to the Quad Cities (they lasted about 2 years in the Quad Cities).

Currently, the Lancers probably average about 3800 per night (would be higher but for the damn midweek games), UNO average about 7,000, and the two teams are working together to try and have fans support both teams. The Lancers and UNO try to schedule on different dates (only three common days this season). On Saturday, 2-13, both UNO and the Lancers have home games. The Lancers are playing at 4:00 PM against Chicago and UNO will play the University of Michigan at 7:00 PM. Season ticket holders to the Lancers get a free game ticket to UNO, and UNO season ticket holders get a free game ticket to the Lancers. The teams play in buildings only about 8 blocks apart, so Saturday is billed as "Hockey Day in Omaha", it should be a great day in Omaha (coincidently, also my birthday, watching two hockey games great, turning 43, a little depressing).

I think UNO the Lancers are smart to promote each others programs rather than competing against each other. One of the biggest problems with an AHL team in town was that the Knights also stated that they were "the highest level of hockey in town." No duh. But any hockey can be entertaining to watch.

As far as fans in the USHL, most are really great fans. Some are a little hard core, and over the top homers (probably me some of the time), but most are good people. The USHL tends to cater more to young families and the suburban type crowd than the blue collar, beer drinking, fight in the stands type of crowd. Again, there is plenty of beer drinking at USHL games, but becuase USHL teams put the players with host parents (most of whom have kids themselves) a good chuck of the crowd will be young, suburban family types.

However, as Mr. R points out, there are a few hockey future prospect (amature scout) types as fans in the USHL (alot of those types on this board). We (I include myself) love watching kids on the way up, appreciating their play, and evaluating if they live up to the hype and projections you read about. I am enjoyed watching guys like Paul Statsny, Keith Ballard, Dan Ellis, Drew Miller, Matt Carle, Joe Corvo and Ryan Malone play for the Lancers. I have enjoyed wathcing guys like Thomas Vanek (Sioux Falls), Ruslan Fedotenko (Sioux City), Justin Abelkader (Cedar Rapids), Peter Senja (Des Moines), Chad LaRose (Sioux Falls), Alex Gologowski (Sioux Falls), Landon Wilson (Dubuque), Scott Clemensen (Des Moines), Kyle Okposo (Des Moines) and countless others play against the Lancers.

I understand why Muskegon fans are upset about loosing 50 years of pro hockey history. But as I said, any hockey is better than no hockey at all. Also, the USHL is not (repeat not) glorified high school hockey. Most USHL teams are full of the highest projected players between 16 and 20. Some will go on to the NHL and be close to "star level" in the NHL. Some won't make it much further than an IHL or CHL level. I would ask Muskegon fans to at least give the USHL a shot. If you go and hate it, OK. However, I think you might be surprised at how enjoyable a USHL game can be.

Any guesses as to what the team will be named? Are they staying the Lumberjacks? The former name of the USHL franchise the owner purchased was the Rochester Mustangs, wonder if Muskegon Mustangs is possible?

Tom
Wahoo, NE

[Primis]

WahooLancer, on 10 February 2010 - 04:19 PM, said:

Any guesses as to what the team will be named? Are they staying the Lumberjacks? The former name of the USHL franchise the owner purchased was the Rochester Mustangs, wonder if Muskegon Mustangs is possible?

Tom
Wahoo, NE

A Muskegon article stated they'd retain the Lumberjacks name. No word of colors/logo yet, but if they're retaining the name, the rest can't be too far-fetched.

Mr. R, are you saying Tim Mayer ("#11 on the ice, #1 when fans hold their fingers up at him") officiates USHL games?

If so, God help the USHL then... God help all hockey in general.

[Mr Ricochet]

Primis, on 10 February 2010 - 03:28 PM, said:

Mr. R, are you saying Tim Mayer ("#11 on the ice, #1 when fans hold their fingers up at him") officiates USHL games?

That's what I'm saying Primis. Sometimes I'll be in Bloomy on a Saturday night and the same ref I saw in Chicago doing USHL the night before is doing the Bloomy game (IHL). Of course I have to scream that I saw you ruin last night's game in Chicago now I gotta see you do it again tonight!!...... Most look at me like I'm a goof thinking the Hounds have been gone for years dude!

[Mr Ricochet]

WahooLancer, on 10 February 2010 - 03:19 PM, said:

However, as Mr. R points out, there are a few hockey future prospect (amature scout) types as fans in the USHL (alot of those types on this board). We (I include myself) love watching kids on the way up, appreciating their play, and evaluating if they live up to the hype and projections you read about.

You know WL, I never really thought about that until I saw it in print. You are correct it is fun to see if what you observe in a player is anything like the scouting report on him. For me I like to watch the 3rd and 4th lines.Some real sleepers down there. Mostly though I seem to 2nd guess The Mighty Steel's moves!

That is a helluva post ML, thanks for it. There are some Musky fans looking to digest as much USHL and their teams' information as they can, and your post sure does cover Omaha!! I'll add the Omaha Lancers are owned by HOFer Luc Robatielle and have won the most USHL Cups. As solid a jr franchise as you'll find at any level.

Also the Boston Bruins GM has just bought a piece of the Dubuque Fighting Saints who will begin play next year with the LumberJacks. Lotta NHL people involved with the USHL. Dean Blias who just coached Team USA to the Gold in the World Junior Championships coached the 1st year Fargo Force last year all the way to the Finals.

[tommyboy49417]

Hey all...new to this side.

Just wondering if it's to early to pick a rival and start to talk "junk" ?

Posters note :

All "junk" talked now or in the future is never meant to be mean, slanderous, or to be taken seriously. All good fun and for the love of the game. Plus I'll never know how many times I'll support the concessions at the arena for an adult beverage so take what I may say with a grain of salt.

[Mr Ricochet]

tommyboy49417, on 10 February 2010 - 05:14 PM, said:

Hey all...new to this side.

Just wondering if it's to early to pick a rival and start to talk "junk" ?

Oh, you gotta follow and trade barbs with GB fans to start. What's not to like, they lead the league in fights and points!!! Think Martinson's IceHogs. Great team to see come to town TB. Jon Cooper took this club from the very worst record two years ago to the points championship last year!! And his boys dropped em every step of the way. IMO he's raised the bar in the USHL, especially with physical play.

Hopefully the Steel become rivals, if only cuz you guys will road trip to the big city of Chicago. Only 200 miles!! The Steve Poapst coached Steel are a bit euro in that they are a skating skill club. They also churn out 1st, 2nd and 3rd round NHL Dmen!! Usually a lotta skill in a Steel lineup,especially on the blueline.

Indy is a natural as well. They won the Cup last year and are good once again this year. Youngstown has fallen on tough times but they have a huge club and like to muck.

[Mr Ricochet]

Primis, on 10 February 2010 - 09:56 AM, said:

Personally, with the move to the USHL I think I'm going to adopt Muskegon as my USHL team of choice and maybe even try to get up and see a game or two (even though it'd be more practical for me to watch them when they play in Ann Arbor).

I've been curious about the USHL for a while and this seems like a good time, with a normal franchise now in Michigan (I don't count the NTDP) to get more involved.

Just wait till the NTDP comes to Musky Primis. I just can't put into words the skill and speed this team has, and should have. They are the best of their age group in a country of 300+ million people. Freakish would be the first word to describe those two clubs.

As I said to tommyboy, seeing GB is a must. The Lancers are always top notch as well. Waterloo coached by PK O'Handley will remind you of the Red Wings style a bit. Incredibly well positioned every time I see them.

If I don't meet you this Sunday at the Kzoo Wings game Primis it might just happen at a Musky USHL game!!

[Old Jacks]

Two things:

First, in no way shape or form should the Muskegon USHL team keep the Jacks name. Create a seperate identity. New colors, new logo, new name.

Second, if the USHL is everything some of you make it out to be it wouldn't be a bad idea to send a bus or two of STHs to a game. I'm sure the expense of doing that would be much less and the results much more effective than trying to spend that money on advertising trying to get new fans. Face it, we're the people who already shell out hundreds, if not thousands on the team. We can be the best friends or worst enemies of a franchise. I've already heard plenty of casual fans who don't have an interest in a junior team. There are plenty of STHs that feel the same way. While I really don't have any animosity towards a junior team, my interest in that same team is minimal. Maybe feeling the "magic" would change that....or not.

[Thunderbolt]

Old Jacks, on 10 February 2010 - 08:51 PM, said:

First, in no way shape or form should the Muskegon USHL team keep the Jacks name. Create a seperate identity. New colors, new logo, new name.

For a city that clings to their hockey history, the popularity of this request is intriguing. If the team did go through a name and logo change, how many fans would complain they would have to purchase all new spirit wear?

Quote

Second, if the USHL is everything some of you make it out to be it wouldn't be a bad idea to send a bus or two of STHs to a game.

Save a space on your calendar for Sunday, February 28... when the Indiana Ice play their game at Conseco. If it were up to me, that would be the game I'd send Musky fans to...

[Chaulker]

I know for a fact, that Muskegon fans will support hockey at their arena. But calling them "dolts" or "ignorant" does not sit well with me.

Please, from the USHL side, if you understand hockey, you must understand the transition that's taking place in Muskegon. It seems to me that most places that are currently "supporting" USHL hockey has had juniors and that's about it. Indy on the surface would be the exception, a quick scrolling down the list of teams tells me that.

Fans are not going to be all out for the change, but given time, it will happen, much like the transition from Indy to the USHL, which took awhile. Youngstown is still in that swing, as the numbers obviously point out.

You guys love your hockey, congrat's, USHL will probably be a success in Musky and may take off, but no one can guarantee that and no one can call those fans "dolts" or "ignorant" if it doesn't.

[Yeti]

If my "dolts" comment offended anyone's delicate sensibilities, I apologize. I have no problem with the hockey fans in Muskegon who are informed, educated, and are willing to give the USHL a shot. However, I do have a problem with people slamming the USHL without doing any research first. I understand the hockey fans in that town are upset, as they should be. But don't take your anger out on a league, or your team, just because you're pissed off. Mr. Rico and Wahoo have done a great job here showing why so many of us love the USHL. I hope the fans in Muskegon at least give it a shot. I'd hate to see the fans there turn their noses to the USHL just because it's "a bunch of high school kids." That's bogus. That kind of ignorance is what could kill the USHL franchise in that city. I'm confident the TRUE hockey fans in Muskegon will embrace the USHL team, and will learn to love junior hockey. Like many others who have posted here, I've seen a ton of hockey over the years. I've played hockey for the past 20 years. In my opinion, it doesn't get any better than the USHL. Best bang for the buck.

This post has been edited by Yeti: 11 February 2010 - 08:01 AM